“reader, I Married Him” My Sister In Christ He Locked His First Wife In The Attic

I completely forgot the line you mentioned about Andrew’s mind being where it should have been, but your comments about it are spot on! Andrew is too saddened by Laurie leaving, and then too distracted by refusing his demands, that he cannot think enough to come up with a way to comfort Charlot, his actual charge. It really makes the whole thing 10x sadder. I'm definitely gonna have to go back and reread that scene now, just to get a clearer sense of it all!

Re: 'the loss of that relationship feels real to me' I think is because it is a real loss. Laurie loved Andrew, and always felt their relationship to be real even when Ralph didn't, but by the end he can never see him again. It's heartbreaking.

Actually, both times I read the book, I came away happy for Laurie but also very sad and I think his relationship with Andrew (and Andrew's whole storyline) is the reason why. If you think about it, at the end of the book, Laurie is put in the exact same position Ralph was all those years ago at school: here is someone who adores him, and who refuses to believe that he's done what he's been accused of simply because he cannot fathom that he'd do it. And what does Laurie do? Exactly what Ralph did: he tells the truth, gives Andrew the Phaedrus and goes away. But what will happen to Andrew after this? We don't know and neither does Laurie. He may die in the next 5 years, but even if he doesn't, it seems hopelessly optimistic to envision a similar happy ending to Laurie's for him.

Propaganda for Andrew's moral code....

Time for a bit of Andrew love I think.

@telltaleangelina I loved your post about Ralph/Laurie’s philosophy of life compared with Andrew’s, which so resonated with me - they have a kind of heroic idealism which is very attractive, and apart from anything else it supplies most of the drama and action of the book!

But it also made me want to think more about Andrew and his motivations. So, inspired by the 'Hot Austen men' polls, here is some propaganda for Andrew. At fifteen he had to decide whether to throw in his lot with the military side of his family or the pacifist one, and it is made clear he took this decision seriously:

“I thought all around it. I thought there might conceivably even be some circumstances when I felt it was right to kill. If I knew whom I was killing and the circumstance and the nature of the responsibility. What I finally stuck at was surrendering my moral choice to men I'd never met, about whose moral standards I knew nothing whatever."

He becomes a CO not to abrogate moral responsibility but so that he can take responsibility for his actions.  Later he and Laurie have this exchange:

“One has to draw the line where one sees it oneself."

"Is that what you call the inner light?"

"If you like, yes."

So the thing that strikes me about the Charlot incident is that his principled stance is not blind faith or rigidity of thought. His main regret is that fighting with Laurie prevented him finding a solution to the problem.  He says:

“If I ... if my mind had been where it should have been, I'd have known what ought to be done, something would have come to me."

Laurie says:

"I do this kind of thing. I get steamed up about things that happen to people till I've got to do something or burst, and if it turns out to do more harm than good, hell, what's the odds, it did good to me. At school for instance. A man -- one of the boys I mean, was going to be sacked, and because I liked him I took for granted he couldn't have done it, and I was all set to have raised hell and involved a lot of other people. And all the time he'd done it after all."

Laurie admits that actually it feels good to ‘do’ something, even if the other person doesn't want it. It is easy to see that both of them have a valid point when it comes to the practicalities.  But for me, the point is that as long as they are trying to impose their will on each other, and operating from a place of ego, there is no possibility of finding another solution.  There are a hundred things they could have done to ease Charlot’s last moments if they had stopped thinking about themselves for one moment.  I think it's interesting for example that Laurie is the only person Charlot still recognises but he wants to 'outsource' comfort to someone else.

And then I realised that when Laurie is referring back to his 16 year old self getting 'steamed up' it is Ralph who points out to him that however much he might ‘want’ to ‘do’ something, it will be hurting other innocent people such as his own family (and very likely including Ralph himself).

Often, Laurie is annoyed at Ralph's inability to stand by.  The bit on the stairs at the party, for instance, and the bit where he tells Ralph "You can't eat and breathe for me, or live for me. No one can."  Pretty strong stuff to say to the man you just made passionate love to a moment ago! And let's not forget the comment about the drunk trying to mend the watch.

Sometimes I think the really sad thing is that Laurie is locked in to a different system of morality (The Phaedrus), one which means he is Andrew’s mentor and protector and Andrew is the innocent and therefore had no real moral agency. I'm not sure that means he could have or should have been with Andrew as a romantic partner, but the loss of that relationship feels real to me.

And finally....I think you have made me understand something that has always puzzled/amused me a little bit about the arguments that Laurie/Ralph have. He uses all those military analogies that seem to suggest that even while he sees that Ralph is trying to dominate him and battles with it, he is also, kind of, comfortable with it. And maybe it is that he sees himself in Ralph, he completely understands why Ralph is behaving the way he does. I always find that so touching (a little bit funny too, especially the captain shouting 'fire'!)

I hope you'll be able to post! I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Re the Alec line - - I'm taking it in the sense that Alec finally gets to do what Ralph never allowed him to do in their relationship: help him. And it's kind of sweet to see all the effort he had to go to in order to make sure Laurie straightens everything out.

A little random blurb but: I really liked Alec and Ralph's friendship. When I was reading, I got the impression they were somewhat similar in character and this was their issue before when they were together. But maybe I'm wrong here; Alec does say Ralph's capacity to shoulder responsibility is singular and he doesn't share it. I can't think of much beyond these small thoughts but seeing it all laid out made me wonder about it more.

At the end of The Charioteer, Laurie lies to Ralph but feels the lie as if it's true. There's something that must be done, and only he can do it. He accepts this, even if he lies in order to achieve it.

Before, Ralph told Laurie he hates to stand by watching while there's pain or the possibility of it, and do nothing. It's not the way he's made, he says. This is a direct contrast to Andrew, who we see literally standing, watching and doing nothing when caring for Charlot. This is not because Andrew is unkind, it is because there is right and wrong and nothing whatever in between. Ralph is not like this: people need someone, he takes on that responsibility, even if it isn't his to shoulder. He acts like God, they say. He's the opposite of Andrew in this regard. Maybe the point is that Laurie isn't like Andrew either, although he loves him. It's also not in his nature to stand and watch people suffer; this is why he felt something ought to be done in school when Ralph was being kicked out, and why he feels it at the end of the book when he realizes what Ralph is planning to do. It's why he feels the pressing demand to deceive Charlot even as he knows that, in his right mind, the man would never want it. I got the sense the first time I read the book and now the second, that Laurie is much more generally suited to Ralph, and this is why.

I don't know if this makes sense, I've not gotten much sleep. Any thoughts? Do you think this is right, wrong? Am I overthinking it?

I wonder what Alastair and Cordelia would think of Emma. I like to think there are bits of Alastair that shine through in Emma and that Jem eventually tells her about them.

'Norah' by Sir Samuel Luke Fildes (british, 1844-1927)

cordelia carstairs to james at the herondale ball:

The Andrew description is so so similar to the Ralph one. Fair hair and tanned skin obviously but there are so many details, he's even wearing grey like the school uniform. A proper post will follow but in the meantime omG

The TE Lawrence quote ‘Sacrifice uplifts the redeemer and casts down the bought’ – you mentioned that it might be a clue to how Alec/Ralph’s relationship ended.  I wondered what your thoughts are on this?  I can never work out if it is that Alec wants to ‘look after Ralph’ or doesn’t want Ralph to ‘look after him’.  I mean, a bit of both I’m sure, but I still wonder what it looks like? And also, how was it reading that cliffhanger ending for the first time?

So, my whole idea comes from the fact that Alec and Ralph seem somewhat similar in personality to me. I got the impression that both wanted to take some responsibility; Ralph in literally everything, and Alec in a relationship...about the T.E. Lawrence quote: full disclaimer, I haven’t read the book it's from. I'm probably way off base, but just on its own, the quote to me came across as: complex men understand that sacrifice uplifts the one who partakes in it, and casts down the one for whom it is done. The first redeems the second, but the second will always be beneath the first; he is ‘bought’ (i.e. indebted) and also ‘cast down.’ When it’s mentioned by Alec, I assumed he was referring both to himself and Ralph as being those ‘complex men’ who also 'sacrifice.’ There was also a direct mention of Sandy prior to it being brought up, so I linked the whole thing both to Alec’s relationship (and impression) of Ralph (who he says is ‘complex’ but remains innocent about it), along with his relationship to Sandy (who I assume is the one ‘bought’).

So, the way I read it was: Alec identifies himself as a ‘complex man' who understands the implication of being the one to sacrifice for another person; he identifies Ralph as such a complex man too, but seems annoyed that Ralph doesn't understand that the people for whom he sacrifices are inevitably 'cast down' and 'bought.' He maintains an innocence about things in general and this bothers Alec. Later on, Alec obviously says that Ralph never let him do anything in their relationship, so I made a leap and connected this comment to the quote and came away with a vague idea that in their relationship Ralph probably would’ve been the one who 'sacrificed’ and Alec would’ve been the one who was ‘cast down,’ i.e. Alec was expected to depend on Ralph, who took all responsibility while Alec was never allowed to fulfil any similar role; Ralph never let himself depend on Alec, or let him help in any way. This would’ve been an inherently unequal relationship and I don't think Alec would've liked it (because again, I see him as similar to Ralph in the sense he wants responsibility; he himself also says most of their arguments resulted from Ralph's inability to just let him help or do anything).

Re the cliffhanger: the first time I read it, it did a number on me…I didn’t much understand it, because I was rushing to get through and see what happened with Ralph. When I finally got to the end, and read ‘I should’ve had to come back,’ I was honestly...flabbergasted, I think is the correct word? I didn’t realise that Laurie was lying, so it seemed the sweetest thing in the world. I remember the whole day after I finished the book, I kept thinking about those words and wondering what happened! The last paragraph seemed to indicate a happy ending (I read it like three times over lol), but I hated how abrupt it all was. It wasn't until some time had passed that I actually started to liked the abruptness. Also, it really made me want to read the Phaedrus!

congratulations alexias son of myron you just invented christianity

The lightwood family- Gideon and Sophie, Eugenia, Barbara and Thomas. 

Characters by @cassandraclare

Do you guys see the resemblance? 

Jonathan Harker, being encompassed with terrors that he dare not think of: