I'm Genuinely Shocked That So Many People Were Blindsided By The Reveal That Miquella Was A Bit Fucked

Kind of beating a dead horse (goat?) here but does anyone else find the interaction between Kris and Ralsei in chapter 2, before bringing all the Darkners to castle town kind of weird?

Just to refresh your memory, I'm talking about when he ushers Susie away, approaches Kris and whispers-

"(Kris, I have something to ask of you.)

(I need you to return to the Light World...)

(And go to the old classroom, to the EAST of the closet doors.)

(Inside, gather everything on the ground...)

(And bring it back here. Could you?)"

Most people have seen this interaction and have come away wondering how Ralsei knows the layout of the Light World, but I don't think that's the most important issue here. Mainly because knowledge of the Light World seems innate for certain Darkners, as Queen also references her light world location being the Library several times.

No, the thing I find weird about this interaction is his insistence on keeping Susie entirely in the dark.

This, by all accounts of reason doesn't make any sense.

Not only would two Lightners realistically have a much easier time transporting all of those items than one, but Susie is their team mate, there's absolutely no reason to keep this a secret from her, even with their rocky first encounter. But despite this, Ralsei goes to great lengths to make sure only Kris hears this advice, not only talking well out of earshot of Susie but also whispering as to negate any chance of her overhearing him.

It's just weird. I know a lot of people playing chapter 2 for the first time picked up on the uncomfortable vibe Ralsei was giving off in the beginning but I don't see much discussion on this interaction in particular.

And it's not only this either. From what I can tell, he seems to have a bit of a habit of keeping secrets from Susie. Even more so than his normal secrecy.

My memory is admittedly kind of foggy, so I can't pinpoint all examples of this, but a specific one that comes to mind is his secret conversations with Kris from chapter 1 and 2, which even we haven't been able to see yet. (Though you could easily argue that it's the player he doesn't want overhearing the conversation that time.)

-------------------

What do you think? Is there a totally reasonable explanation behind these actions? Am I just reading too far into things, or does something actually seem off with his exclusion of Susie in this conversation?

btw I'm calling it now that those eye markings that Melina and Ranni have are actually marks of empyreans. (which would also make Melina herself one aswell.)

I just think it's slightly too suspect that we never see the full face of a living empyrean in the game.

Marika has her eyes covered in the intro and is missing one half of her face in the ending (the perfect place for an eye marking to have been without leaving any evidence)

Malenia's upper face has been affected by the rot and thus no eye marking would be visible.

Miquella's face is also never properly shown in game. Even in the shadow of the erdtree teaser it is kept out of shot of the camera.

And while Ranni does have an eye marking on her puppet body, we have no idea what her original one might have had, as it's been burnt beyond recognition and no depictions of living Ranni exist in game.

Even if it isn't the eye marking, there's been a very deliberate choice to keep empyrean's faces hidden throughout the game and I feel like it means something.

It's absolutely heart breaking.

something else that I can't stop thinking about is how good Ansbach is despite being a follower of the Mohgwyn dynasty. Throughout the entire base game, all of Mohg followers are so cruel and twisted. All they care for is shedding blood, no matter who's it might be. But Ansbach is different. He's kind, and loyal and forgiving. And seeing someone like that hold Mohg in such high regards… It just makes me wonder what he and his dynasty might have been like before Miquella sunk his claws into Mohg's heart.

-

This isn't even touching upon the fact that Radahn himself almost definitely rejected Miquella's request to be his consort. The dude's a golden order loyalist that thrives on the battle ground. I don't see him suddenly siding with Miquella to make the world a "gentler place." Especially since him and Malenia got into such a violent battle during the shattering. And how there's no record anywhere in the game about the connection between Miquella and Radahn.

Because it's entirely one sided.

-

I feel so incredibly bad for everyone Miquella used his powers to manipulate. They all deserved better.

Mohg deserves an apology

Knowing that he was used and manipulated all along hurts, but the fact that his corpse was violated and disrespected in such a way actually makes me want to vomit. Mohg didn't deserve this. He didn't deserve to be bewitched he didn't deserve to be fed pretty lies that made him go mad he didn't deserve to be used as fodder for the tarnished and he didn't deserve to treated like this in death. It makes me so sad. At least morgott had a choice, at least morgott died in his father's arms. Mohg gets nothing. Nothing but desecrated and disrespected. The only one who fought for his honor was ansbach. the amount of pain he must have felt knowing his beloved lord and master was used as a puppet for so long, only to be desecrated and used to feed miquellas selfish wish. Miquella was never once a victim. Mohg was the victim all along. And we don't even get a fitting consolation prize after avenging him.

Do you know how grossed out I am. I was like wait why does radahn have horns on his arms and then the realization hits me because it's mohgs body they used. Miquella used mohgs dead body as the vessel for radahn. And you kill them both. In the end I guess radahn got what he wanted he wanted to be related to Godfrey. Just sucks he had to violate mohgs body to do that.

Considering the vast majority of the fandom calls Ranni a spoilt, selfish little princess for not wanting to play nice with the god and order that destroyed her home and drove her mother insane, it really doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that many would also not see what’s wrong with how the other races in the lands between are treated.

It seems like anyone who tries to break the status quo in the lands between is often painted out to be a villain in the fandom's eyes, unless they do it in a purely pacifistic way. Including the tarnished themselves. 

-

Side note but this is also why I feel like any ending that reninstates the golden order as it was (including goldmasks ending) are some of the worst in the game. The persecution of many of the other races in the lands between aren’t going to stop if the golden order is put back in power. The golden order at its core was about trying to brute force control and "order" into the world by assimilating everyone else into it.

It kind of shocks me how people in the Souls fandom do not see Albinaurics as real people. Or even the Misbegotten rebelling in the Castle Morne as something they had to do.

It is weird. Zelda lore in general is just kinda a nightmare. For example Zelda is apparently the descendant of Sonia and Rauru but the game literally makes no reference to a child of the two existing up until and after the point where Sonia is killed.

Even as a stand alone BOTW/TOTK have a lot of little weird inconsistencies. Hell, there's really no way to know whether I'm actually right about this or not because the games seem to just pick and choose when they're pulling from previous lore and when they're doing something different.

Like, with the existence of Fi and Zelda's goddess power, I think It's safe to assume that an event similar to skyward sword happened in lore, meaning that ganon could have demise' curse. But at the same time, like you said the origin of hyrule has been rewritten and we're in an entirely different timeline so it's entirely impossible to tell just how much of the pre established stuff actually plays into it. (Though I do personally believe that Demise is cannon in BOTW/TOTK due to the immense amount of power the secret stone was able to grant Ganondorf despite them only being able to enhance someone's innate abilities and not grant them totally new ones)

"Radahn is a warmonger!"

my brother in Christ, they are all warmongers. Radahn is probably the softest character of the lot when it comes to the leaders during the shattering.

Like, Rykard's house is a torture chamber and he's partly responsible for the most horrific (documented) war in the lands between and Ranni masterminded a mass assassination but we're beefing with their brother who *checks notes* Just really likes fighting things, riding his horse and is documented to be a rather fair and honourable opponent to go up against?

1) Yes I stole poll idea from a mutual, 2) Seluvis is excluded on the notion of being "comically evil" character (kinda like Petrus from DS1) when the purpose of the poll is that blorbo has a lot of nuance to base the defence on. No shade on his simps btw gfhfhdbg and 3) Marika and Mohg are excluded on the notion that hate towards them kinda evaporated after SOTE

My personal undertale headcanon is that Flowey isn’t emotionless and incapable of connecting with others because he lacks a soul or is inherently “bad”, it’s because he was deeply traumatized from watching his best friend/sibling kill themselves in an incredibly painful way only to die violently himself hours later at like, the age of 11?

That would break anybody. To make things even worse, he woke up an undisclosed amount of time later in a body wholly alien to him, unable to move, completely alone until Asgore found him. If that wasn’t bad enough he then had to directly face the consequences of his and Chara’s plan, and the deep pain that it caused everyone in the underground. His father, the king? Broken. His mother? Missing. His people? Devastated and hopeless. Chara? Gone.

And to make things just that much worse, when the pain and grief of everything gets too much for him, and he deems himself broken beyond repair and decides to take his life he finds out that he has complete control over time itself.

He then spends an unimaginable amount of time experimenting with this power, constantly trying to do the right thing, constantly trying to help people and make the world better. But he’s never satisfied. He’s never happy. He does this, again and again and again. He grows older and older but never actually ages, he sinks deeper and deeper into his own tiny world, becoming even more distant and disconnected from the people around him as situations repeat themselves and peoples lives loop and loop without end. 

Eventually he becomes so unbearingly bored of the endless, unescapable cycle that he starts to experiment with more negative situations. Afterall, his actions no longer have consequences, right? Anything he does, he can and will undo eventually. Even the most horrific actions hold no weight in Flowey’s impermanent world. The only person who ever has to deal with the consequences of Flowey’s actions… Is Flowey himself.

So he does it. Slipping deeper and deeper into his delusions. Falling deeper and deeper into genuine insanity as the years repeat themselves onto eternity and Flowey disconnects completely from the world around him.

At this point, he feels that he’s experienced quite literally everything the world has to offer. He probably lived as Flowey far longer than he ever did as Asriel by now. He’s befriended everyone, he’s hurt everyone. He’s saved everyone, he’s killed everyone. He’s done everything. Even violence doesn’t interest him anymore. So what does he do? He stops.

I’ve always wondered how Frisk even had the chance to fall into Mt. Ebott and usurp Flowey of his powers if he was constantly resetting the timeline, but I think I finally get it.

Flowey probably just… Stopped completely at some point. He stopped resetting, stopped interacting with the world and sat himself at his best friend's grave and just… waited. Waited for something, anything new to happen. Eventually enough time passed for a new human to fall, a human who inherently overpowers Flowey’s control of the timeline and so, for the first time in what must have felt like eternity Flowey was finally free from his power.

-

After everything that Asriel experienced leading up to and during his death, he probably would have needed intense therapy to overcome the trauma. But that’s not what he got was it? He didn’t get therapy. He didn’t get the chance to heal. He got the powers of a god and the curse of his actions no longer having consequences. I don’t believe Flowey is incapable of connecting with others or feeling true happiness or love. I think that’s just a lie he told himself so his situation wouldn’t hurt as much.

-

But, even after all of that I believe Flowey still has a chance at happiness. We see his character shift dramatically after the Omega Flowey fight. After he is once again stripped of his power over time, he has an intense moment of vulnerability that shows what I believe to be his true colors, followed by him coaching Frisk on how to get a better ending for everyone.

Sure, this was likely a trap for Flowey to take everyone’s souls, but once again, after his defeat as Asriel and returning to Flowey’s form, he has yet another character shift.

He’s genuinely happy at this ending. He’s happy that everyone escaped the underground, happy that Frisk gets to live their life. He begs the player to just leave everyone to their lives and to move on themselves. He doesn’t want his power back, he doesn’t want the cycle to continue anymore.

For the first time in god knows how long, Flowey is satisfied.

And maybe if the alarm clock dialogue is anything to go by, given time Flowey can finally heal. Flowey can finally find happiness and love again.

desperate to do a Mohg deep dive after all the DLC content on him. There's just... so much.

Ansbach's entire demeanour seems completely backwards compared to modern Mohgwyn loyalists we know of. He holds Mohg is such incredibly high regard, and is probably one of, if not the most respectful warrior in a fromsoft game. Were the other pureblood knights like this? What happened to them? Why is Ansbach the only one left?

What could Mohg have been like to install such loyalty and respect in one of his followers, to the point where they'd face a newly born god just to do right in his name?

What caused Ansbach to decide to challenge Miquella in the first place? What tipped him off that Mohg was being used? How long were they interacting before this happened?

Was the Mohgwyn Dynasty always a vicious murder cult? was their once more to the group before Mohg's charming? If there wasn't, why didn't Miquella use his bewitchment of Mohg to stop it? Did he indorse Mohg's actions? Did he incite them.

I've already made a semi-joke post about this idea but now that we know that Shulk and Rex's kids are going to be a part of the Future Redeemed party and that they've been reborn into the Origin system as child soldiers I'm really curious as to how the two are going to react to what Moebius has done.

Despite Shulk's track record of violently flying off the handle when the people he cares about are hurt, I can imagine his reaction to seeing (who could be) his child in Aionios being that he’s just happy to see them and to know that they’re safe, even if they’ve been turned into a child soldier that doesn’t recognise him. 

After all, his reaction to Fiora being turned into a Mechon in XC1 was to almost instantly let go of his hatred for the Mechon, try to save her and try to understand what was actually going on. He wasn’t angry that they turned her, he was happy that she was alive.

-

Rex however, despite being outwardly optimistic and kind throughout his game I think would fly off the fucking rails the second he realises what Moebius had done to his daughter. 

Pyra and Mythra both have a lot of trauma about their past as living weapons, which they probably carry in some way even to this day. And I think the fact that Moebius would dare subject his daughter to the same pain his partners have been through, being dehumanised and forced to fight to survive as nothing more than living weapons would be enough to tip him over the edge.

I also imagine that N is going to be in some deep fucking water if Rex ever figures out what’s happened to Mio as well.

totk endgame spoilers

Y'know, I've always wondered if this line represents that a small piece of Demise was beginning to seep through the cracks of Ganondorf.

Ganondorf is a lot of things in this game, but he isn't above "mortals." He's very much one himself, even if he has survived for thousands of years, so the line "I will not be defeated by a mere mortal..." Feels kinda strange.

That is unless the power of the secret stone started to awaken that side of him. After all, Demon king Ganon looks shockingly similar to Demise, to an almost frightening degree. And the power of the secret stones themselves, which are only supposed to be able to boost ones own power ended up turning Ganondorf into a borderline god. Giving him abilities that base Ganon straight up didn't have. Giving him control over literal celestial entities, allowing him to create life out of thin air and granting him the power to defeat 6 other fully fledged sages in battle single handedly. It turned him into a god. It awoke something within him. Something that had been dormant for so, so very long.