My Personal Undertale Headcanon Is That Flowey Isn’t Emotionless And Incapable Of Connecting With Others

that's a really interesting interpretation! I could totally see that being the answer

Y'know, I've been thinking about the vow between Miquella and Radahn a lot recently, and I feel like I've come up with a possible explanation for why Radahn seemingly agreed at first but later backed out of the deal.

If Radahn truly did agree to become Miquella's consort, what are the chances that it was made under the pretense that he'd be the next elden lord in the golden order? Continuing the legacy and age of both his personal hero and father, alongside Miquella as the new god of the age, but things remaining overall the same.

Once Miquella became disillusioned with Marika's age and decided to do his own thing, and create his own age, Radahn probably lost interest in becoming his consort because he wouldn't be the lord of the age he loved anymore, infact he would be a major factor in it ending. Something that he historically does not stand for.

This probably lead to a disagreement between the two that lead to Malenia invading Selia. Miquella feeling betrayed because Radahn was now refusing to uphold his promise, and Radahn feeling betrayed because Miquella turned his back on the golden order he loved and was now trying to bring it to an end.

Moving Gransax's corpse in the convergence mod to the other side of Leyndell's inner wall is such an odd choice. It’s such a visually striking feature of the city and it almost looks bare without it.

I can’t even really figure out why the decision was made. There hasn’t been any major changes to the design of that segment of Leyndell from what I can tell and he and his spear don’t connect with their new environments very well at all. Overall a very weird choice from what is usually a very consistently high quality mod.

One thing I’ve been thinking about recently that I just cannot get out of my head is why Marika shattered the elden ring? I mean, it’s all well and good to just say “Oh it’s because she was driven mad by the death of Godwyn of course” but I just don’t think that’s quite right. Not only does it feel weird to assume the shattering was just some spur of the moment decision done in an emotional outburst when it was very clearly planned in quite a lot of detail but it also doesn’t really add up with the timeline since Godfrey was presumably sent out of the lands between long before Godwyn died and that seems to be a massive part of what Marika’s plan was.

I think I’ve come up with a semi possible alternative reason as to what could have driven Marika to destroy her own order.

Ok hear me out here.

What if she instead betrayed her order because of what happened to her omen children? I mean, think about it. They are still her children after all and she had to abandon both of them as infants to a life of hell because the greater will (or the golden order, could be both) doesn’t like Omens.

We know that the GW was a pretty controlling (and rather petty) god when it was in power so it definitely had the ability and motive to strong arm Marika into doing things she wouldn’t want to. Even if she did want to keep the twins with her, what choice would she have had with that sort of being looming over her head 24/7?

Imagine how much that would destroy your faith in a system. Her own children, subjected to a life of pain and ridicule because of the way they were born all because her god (or society) says so.

I find it hard to believe that she wouldn’t at least have some conflicted feelings over the whole ordeal.

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I think the biggest evidence I have here is the fact that the omen twins were not only gifted greatrunes upon the rings shattering (something only granted to Marika’s offspring) but Morgott was even ‘given grace’, which is something Marika has a lot of control over.

Even after being born omens and being abandoned early on in their lives Marika still considered them enough of her kin to be given a chance in the shattering race. Now you could argue that them getting their greatrunes was just a happy accident but I really don’t think the same could be said about Morgott being grace given. That seems like a very conscious decision.

We can even see that Godfrey himself had some sense of fondness (or at least respect) for Morgott from the way he holds and speaks to him in his opening boss cutscene, is it really so out of the question that Marika may have felt the same?

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TLDR

What if Marika having to abandon her Omen children because of the greater will and golden order was the catalyst that began her plot to shatter the ring and end her own order?

okie dokie

The erdtree is both the religious centre of the lands between (being the biggest symbol of the golden order/greater will) and the literal centre of the lands between.

There’s an argument to be made that it changes its appearance depending on which age is currently in effect (for example it’s the age of the golden order during the time the game takes place which is why it’s glowing golden) but we never actually get to see first hand what it could have looked like in the past, nor do any characters who could have exsisted at the time comment on it.

There’s also a good amount of evidence that the erdtree itself is actually not a natural part of the world since it seems to be directly growing out of what could be argued to be a massive crater that gives the land itself its peculiar shape. This along with the common themes of things falling from the sky from space and the “stars” being an antagonistic force leads me to believe that this is indeed the case.

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When the elden ring was shattered the erdtree, for the first time in history produced seeds that spread across the lands between. These seeds would eventually become the smaller, "minor erdtrees" that are visable around the lands aswell as the little golden sprouts that you can get golden seeds from.

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The most peculiar thing about the tree itself though is actually how it interacts with the cycle of life and death. Even though natural death isn’t a part of the lands anymore, when it was a part of it people actually had to ‘return themselves to the erdtree’ through the roots of the tree. This is why there are so many catacombs around the lands. The more prestige you had in life the lower you were buried into the roots.

Returning oneself to the erdtree seemingly supplied the tree with the sustenance that it needed, much like normal trees absorb water through their roots. The tree was very likely feeding off the souls of the dead. (which could also be what causes its glowing golden appearance.)

That's about it for the erdtree. I think there's a couple more minor things that I didn't explain but that's most of the important stuff.

Elden Ring lore, huh?

I mean I can just say a bunch random words with 'the' in front of them, too.

A lot of games get accused of having world building that really doesn't matter to gameplay. Elden Ring feels like a dare to see how far you can take that.

I still don't know why you can summon an antelope to ride on that can't die but just disappears if someone hits it, and then there is a cool-down period before you can bring it back. And what does that have to do with the giant LED tree?

Who made all of these barrels and boxes? Because this world seems to only have monsters and guys who kill monsters in it.

Please reblog this explaining everything to me. I'm sure it will suddenly be not a bunch of whatever nonsense when YOU type it.

(I know this isn't about comparing character morality but I really wanna write my thoughts down on this real quick, sorry) Honestly Ranni’s acts are significantly more justifiable than Godfreys. Ranni only did the bare minimum she needed to separate herself from the greater will and eventually overthrow it. She was desperate, and I can’t blame her because from the way she describes the GW it sounds like it’s hardly more than a controlling parasite. Bottom line is that Ranni wouldn’t have had to resort to doing the things she did if she was allowed even a slither of autonomy over her own flesh, and wasn’t predestined to become the GW’s puppet.

It's also important to note that the shattering and everything that came from it was mostly Marika’s doing. I’m not entirely comfortable with blaming her for every atrocity her children committed but she definitely has to shoulder a significant amount of the blame for the whole “ordering her insanely powerful family to fight over the titles they desire all the while giving them a massive power boost via the shards” thing.

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Godfrey on the other hand is absolutely batshit. I love him but the dude really needed to chill the fuck out. Even before he became Marika’s lord he was presumably a bloodthirsty warrior who would fight and kill anyone and anything he could. And after becoming Marika’s lord he played a pivotal role in the destruction of pretty much any society who fell outside of the GW’s very strict circle. And after leaving Marika with the tarnished they presumably went back to fighting anything and anyone they could find. He was the aggressor in every single conflict he ever fought that we know of. I'd argue that purely from a moral standpoint he's probably worse Radagon, who atleast attempted to find peaceful solutions to the wars he was waging. Which is odd because Radagon seems to be the more disliked out of the two.

“it’s fine and actually heroic to violently conquer nations and kill thousands just because their existence threatens your empire as long as it makes your empire prosperous and benevolent and benefitting everyone’s well-being! wait what do you mean the empire is slaughtering albinaurics and omen and making misbegotten into slaves”

Honestly I’m surprised by the amount of people who think Mohg’s character was at all reduced by the DLC— if anything, the introduction of a character like Ansbach and the reveal that he was bewitched adds a lot to his story.

I wonder if there’s any correlation between those who believe his character was taken away from and those who very staunchly believed that he kidnapped Miquella all on his own? Because in my personal experience, I’m someone who always thought it was more likely that it was either a mutual agreement or manipulation + bewitchment on Miquella’s end rather than kidnapping— otherwise, there’s a lot going on in terms of the environment and story details that just don’t make sense (IE; why is nobody at the Haligtree concerned about there being a kidnapping, and are simply waiting for Miquella to come back)! And also, since GRRM has a quote discussing how he’s not fond of the “here’s the good guys, they dress in white and look pretty while the bad guys dress in black and are ugly” trope, I would’ve been more shocked if that was played straight and it WAS a kidnapping.

Another thing, I fell in love with his character before I knew anything about his involvement with Miquella. Varré’s quest, the subtle buildup of his presence you see throughout the world of the game and the characterization it provides! As soon as I saw the Bloodroses for the first time, I knew he was going to be a favorite of mine. They alone clue us in on so much about him as a character, painting this mysterious Lord of Blood as a romantic, but morbid figure.

He has so much character without Miquella, he has a fully fleshed out backstory that I can’t help but to adore. Then, the DLC comes in and makes you confront any pre-conceived notions of what Mohgwyn was like prior to Miquella, it makes you ask what this blood cult was like before it got extra bloody, it makes you ask where this love for Miquella came from, and so on. I personally subscribe to “it was a combination of genuine manipulation from Miq’s end along with bewitchment— which played horribly well with Mohg’s idea of and need for love”, but there’s so many ways you can go about it! So many fun possibilities to explore that add further depth to these characters and their relationship!

So I find it surprising as hell that people would think the DLC took anything away from his character, when it really just fleshed him out further.

Honestly when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense that the lands between and land of shadow don't connect perfectly when you try to overlay the maps, even though they were once part of the same landmass.

The two have been separated for many years by the time the game takes place, and have both developed independently through untold years of turmoil, war, natural disasters and weathering.

I'd be more surprised if they did connect properly after all of that.

I can't stop thinking about St. Trina in the fissure.

How Miquella likely threw her in from the top. How he sealed her behind a magic gate so nobody could ever find her. How he bewitched and clouded the memories of someone who was a devout follower of her. How the purple liquid seeping from her face almost looks like blood leaking from a wound, possibly the one she obtained from the fall. How she embodies Miquella's love. How she'll likely never get to be with the people she loves ever again.

How even after all of that, after being abandoned and left to rot in the deepest possible pit she could be thrown into, after being completely and utterly betrayed by her other half, her one and only concern is for Miquella's safety and happiness. For him to be freed from the gilded cage of godhood.

I think shits going to hit the fan hard in the next chapter. Something tells me that if the knight is a lightner, which they almost certainly are, they're going to follow us into the Dreemurr house dark world.

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Pure speculation here, but since deltarune has a lot of metanarrative stuff going on, what if the knight also follows this?

Ralsei seems determined to keep Kris (and by extension us) on the path of the hero who's going to save the world by sealing the fountains. Throughout the game he railroads the party down this narrative constantly and gets rather agitated when things go in a way that they're "not supposed to." (see his reaction to susie in chapter 1, the spamton fight aftermath or most scenes with him on the weird route). He knows what direction the plot needs to go in and it trying to guide us in that direction.

The story has a hero who is trying to save the world (Kris) by sealing the dark fountains and an antagonist that is trying to end it (the knight) by creating the dark fountains. Seems simple enough.

but Kris has now gone against that narrative by making their own fountain before the knight makes their next move. By playing the role of the knight themselves they've brought the world one step closer to damnation for seemingly no reason. You'd assume the knight would be happy with this since it makes their presumed plan of "destroy the world" easier.

But what if they're not.

What if the knight, the antagonist of this story gets angry that their role is being overtaken by the hero. That the way their story is supposed to go has been derailed by the protagonist fighting their own fate.

What if the knight ends up being a dark parallel of Ralsei. Knowing how the story is supposed to go and becoming confused and angry when things suddenly divert from that story.

In a battle of light vs dark like deltarune, what happens when the hero starts to fight using darkness as well?

Well the knight would only have two options.

Tip the scales and end the world.

Or seal Kris' fountain themselves.

What if we're not the ones to seal chapter 3's fountain?

My take on the promised consort.

I believe that Radahn held the stars in place when Ranni began fearing her fate. She never wanted to become a puppet to the two fingers, and Radahn knowing this attempted to hold off her destiny for as long as possible. Though he likely knew that it would be an inevitability. The only other two living empyreans were cursed afterall. 

There was no way that Miquella or Malenia would be able to take Marika’s place, the two fingers weren’t even the slightest bit interested in either of them. Malenia was already claimed by the God of Rot and Miquella was perpetually in a state of adolescence. Ranni seems to be the only one who was ever actively bothered by her fingers and I believe this is because they had an intense desire for her to be the next god, assuming Miquella and Malenia as lost causes due to their curse.

I think this is when Miquella came to Radahn with a proposition. He will be seeking godhood. Even if the two fingers had no interest in him, even if the world thought him too small and frail to ascend, he was going to find a way, no matter the consequences. He was determined to become the next God and lead the world into an era of abundance and peace. To fix the mistakes of the past.

He only had one simple request.

“Promise me, you’ll be my consort.”

If Miquella were to ascend then Ranni would be free of her duty. She’d be able to live in peace knowing that she’d never have to be controlled by another's will. She wouldn’t have to become a god, she wouldn’t have to succeed queen Marika. And to top it all off, Radahn would get to play the role of his hero Godfrey. Ushering in a new era alongside a new god.

It was perfect.

That was, until the night of the black knives. The night the world was thrown into chaos. The night that the first demigods fell. And the night that he lost his sister.

Radahn likely wouldn’t have known about Ranni’s plot and would have thought her dead alongside the other victims of the night. Ranni was gone, and with her, so too was Radahns need for Miquella’s age.

I believe Radahn, fueled by grief, rage and the mad taint of his greatrune, denounced Miquella and struck out on his own as a warrior of the shattering. He didn’t need peace, he didn’t need Miquella. All he wanted was to fight. All he wanted now was endless war.

Maybe that would be enough to dull the pain of his loss? Not only the loss of his sibling and father, but also the loss of his purpose.

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Now picture Miquella. Making the final preparations to begin his ascension. Only there’s one problem. His consort has abandoned him at the very last moment. As it turns out, it seems Radahn never really cared for Miquella or his visions for a new age, he was only really in it for his own gain. 

Imagine how devastated Miquella would be. Knowing that yet another one of his plans had fallen apart at the finish line. That the person he trusted to rule alongside him didn’t even hesitate to abandon him when it was no longer convenient for him.

His ascension to godhood would never happen. He would never be able to heal his sister. He would never be able to bring forth an age of compassion. He would never be able to right the wrongs of the past.

He had failed again.

Now imagine how furious this would make his people. How angry his followers and his sister would be to see Miquella rejected at such a pivotal moment. To see him mourning a consortship and an age that would never come to pass.

Is there really any wonder that they chose to march towards Caelid and deliver the promised consort by force?