Ron Deserved Better

I’ll agree that is usually Ron who is a more dynamic character and he is usually the one one who seems to put more effort/is more invested into their relationship, (but this can be easily explained by S4 focusing more on him) but a lot of the things you are complaining about are just a result of judging a cartoon by real world standard and taking it far too seriously.

All of the points you brought up were just scenes that are meant to establish the plot of the episodes or show the changes the characters were going through, like the coupon scene was to establish Kim and Ron needed jobs.

And Kim expressing she wanted something different for their next date isn’t bad, she is communicating her needs and that’s a good trait in any relationship.

I'm aware they're scenes that were brought up to establish plot.

What's your point?

Maybe I am taking a cartoon too seriously, but that's my perogative.

If it bothers you, you don't have to follow me or see my posts. I'm not going to force you, or even hate you if you decide that my blog is not something you'd like to see regularly.

It's not for everybody, and I don't blame people who decide this isn't for them.

Yes, Kim expressing she wanted something different for their next date is good. My biggest complaint, and that's on me for not making it clear, is that when Ron did provide her with something new, she pouted and moped.

At a ceremony Ron's dad was being honored at.

It might not have been the most exciting thing ever, and I could understand the disappointment, but for an almost-adult, pouting and moping is kind of immature behavior.

Her sarcastic comment of "Yep, real exciting" also wasn't necessary.

Ultimately, it's not bad the she wants something new, it's bad that she doesn't offer specific ideas but complains about what Ron arranged anyways.

I understand that most of what I complain about is meant to establish the plot of the episode. I just think there were better ways to do that.

The coupon scene: there could have been other ways of establishing Kim and Ron wanting and/or needing jobs.

For example:

They're seniors who want a bit more independence and spending money than their allowances can provide.

Kim's saving up for a car and Ron's saving up for a new scooter.

They're both hoping to put extra money in their college funds.

Kim might want new clothes and Ron might want a new gaming system.

Kim wanted the employee discount at Club Banana and Ron wanted the employee discount at the places he applied to.

Any combination of the above.

There are definitely other scenarios in which they'd want and/or need jobs.

Kim complaining about Ron using coupons for their dates, despite not financially contributing to them herself, didn't have to be one of them.

Don't you think you are missing the point? Because of how often Ron is overlooked whenever he gets any ounce of attention, it usually goes to his head. I think the chapter focused on this flaw not to make the conflict as one-sided on kim's end. Ron was being a bit patrionizing through the episode. So, Ron acknowladging it was the Kim factor, despite being Ron who defeated the villain showcase his character growth and is a sign of humilty and modesty.

Is one of my favorite moments of his character, I like how supportive and kind he is to Kim. Maybe what was missing was Kim acknowladging Ron more often? how would you've liked to see the episode/ending play out? What would you change?

I wouldn't say I'm missing the point. I'd say I'm saying it's stupid. Huge difference.

Furthermore, as I have rewatched the series recently, I can confidently say that, attention does not, actually, go to Ron's head when he receives it.

(And even if it did, that's not an excuse to constantly beat on the guy's self-esteem when even the anon asking this question admits he's constantly over looked.)

At this point in time, "Ron Millionaire" hasn't happened yet, so Kim's only examples would be "Bueno Nacho", "The New Ron", and "Two to Tutor", and in none of those did Ron get a big head.

(But if you're someone who's threatened by other people being successful and confident, it's the same thing.)

In "Bueno Nacho", Ron invented the Naco and got the job as the boss because of it. Being good at his job and actually enjoying it doesn't mean it went to his head, nor was asking Kim to do the job she originally signed them up for.

In "The New Ron", Ron started caring about fashion and hair-care, but this still doesn't mean he had an ego problem.

In "Two to Tutor", Ron was successful, popular, and confident because of his baking skills, and that still doesn't mean he had an ego problem.

Know why? Because he was enjoying the positive attention without putting down others or making fun of them.

Was Ron a little rude in this episode? Yes. But to say it's a recurring problem when it provably isn't shows more about Kim than Ron.

Namely that, to Kim, it doesn't matter if Ron actually has an ego problem or is just confident, it's unacceptable for Ron to be anything but her insecure, bumbling sidekick.

(Seriously, Kim is allowed to say she can do anything, but Ron isn't allowed to say he's good at one thing? How is that a fair and equal relationship?)

It's also worth mentioning that, yes, Ron is provably important to Kim's success, because she has failed any mission she tries to do alone.

Ron's already humble and modest, to the point of insecurity and self-deprecation. He really didn't need to be told, again, that he's nothing special.

How would I have liked this to go? Easy:

It starts out pretty much the same, but, at some point, Kim is watching feeds of her missions and sees, from an outside perspective, how important Ron actually is to her success.

*cue dawning look of realization*

At the end, after Gemini is defeated, we get an exchange like this:

Kim: "I was so upset about this whole Ron-factor thing at first, but, after watching some surveillance videos, I realized they're right."

Ron and Rufus: "Huh?!"

Kim: "I'm really good at the action stuff, but your quick-thinking and resourcefulness has been more helpful than I realized. I'm sorry I never acknowledged that before."

Ron: "Thanks, KP. That means a lot. Sorry I was kind of rude earlier. Friends?"

Kim: "The best."

*hug*

Ron: "But, for the record, it's not you or me, it's us. We're a team. It's not about a Kim Factor or a Ron Factor, it's us together that makes it work."

Dr. Director: "Hmm...perhaps we should spend time studying both of you."

I loved all three of the shows you mentioned. Though in Winx Club’s case I just love the earlier seasons they went off the rails.

I'm not sure "off the rails" is the term I'd use, but it did seem like some of the plots were pretty crazy towards the end.

Then again, it is a world of magic, so I guess crazy can be expected.

Still feels like a bit much at times though.

And, as I stated, I know Winx Club didn't handle everything perfectly all the time, but it still did "girl power" way better than Kim Possible did.

Do you really think all of ML's problems would be fixed if Adrien never existed?

Good heavens, no.

Adrien isn't the problem. He's just a symptom of a much larger issue. That issue being laziness and poor writing that comes in the form of "tell, don't show", plot threads that go nowhere, and lack of character development or plot progression that leads to a setup of "Status Quo Is God". Removing Adrien wouldn't fix all of that. Heck, it wouldn't fix any of that.

I can't fault the writers for replacing Felix with Adrien. Even if I and others could write out a plot with Felix, that's not to say everyone could or that the writers could. It could very well be that Felix as he was in the PV simply didn't work for the setup they had in mind.

...the issue here is that the setup they had in mind seems to require stagnancy. Where Hawk Moth attacks without winning and the heroes fight off the akumas without really trying to track him as the source and the two leads chase each other around in circles without anyone making any headway in either of these battles. Marinette wants to date Adrien. Chat wants to date Ladybug. It's why all her plans to ask him out fail while his attempts to express his feelings aren't taken seriously. And there is no forward movement, whether in their arc or in the fight against Hawk Moth. There wasn't even build or lead up to the two falling in love. They just started out episode one with crushes on each other and remained having crushes on each other until arguably season 5.

But no good story is stagnant. In this setup, characters need to do things and there needs to be a feeling of forward momentum.

Break it down this way: What is Adrien's problem? What is his goal? What is the obstacle to his goal?

Yes, we could say Adrien's dad being a supervillain and a neglectful jerk is Adrien's main problem, but it's not the problem Adrien is actually focused on in the show. Instead, if we could say Adrien has a problem, it would be that he wants to date Ladybug. And his goal is to date Ladybug. And the source of the problem and obstacle to his goal is...Ladybug.

So his problem, his goal, and the obstacle are all the same thing. This ultimately seems to make his problems Ladybug’s fault then because the problem would be solved if she gives in to his wants rather than by any real effort on his part.

Adrien as he is in the show doesn't do anything. And he doesn't need to do anything because he is at his base a character that things are done for. He doesn't have a goal or direction or drive. He just comes out to deal with akumas as needed, flirt with Ladybug when he can, and then be sad because his life is so hard when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't see him doing anything else. We don't see him making friends. We don't see him engaging in school. We don't even really see how he interacts with the classmates he only recently met. Things happen around him, but he is not a driving force in anything in the show.

But Felix in the PV is a very driving character. He had a problem: he's cursed. What does he need to break the curse? A kiss from Ladybug. What are the obstacles to his goal: Ladybug refusing to kiss him and Hawk Moth trying to kill her. How does he get that kiss? By flirting with her and trying to earn her affections while protecting her and making sure she doesn't DIE against an akuma before he gets that special curse-breaking kiss.

It's the start of Felix's journey. His goal and the various obstacles to that goal that make his story interesting and his growth possible. As such, I see him as a character who would progress in his attempts to obtain his goal as well as one who would progress the storyline...which is also accurate of 3D Felix since that's kind of what he's done more in his relatively few appearances than the series has in 5 seasons.

Adrien didn't have to have Felix's personality. He didn't have to have the same goals or level of drive. But he could still have had things where he grows and helps to push the plot forward.

Adrien...

...just started school. He has no friends, knows no one, and is trying to learn the ins and outs of public education. How is he doing in the different setting with teachers instead of tutors? How is he trying to get along with his classmates? Does he experience bullying? Does anyone NOT like him? What is he going through as a new student who had been homeschooled all his life?

...is friends with Chloe. What's it like learning his "only friend" is a bully? How do people respond to this? Does anyone (besides Marinette) fear him or avoid him because if he's friends with Chloe, he must be just like her?

...is a superhero. He could have been spending time learning the history of the ring and trying to develop his powers. Trying to get stronger? Trying to get to know Plagg? What is he experiencing as a highly known model who is also a superhero and having to juggle those dual identities?

...has a dead mom who died of a "mysterious illness". Given that this loss supposedly occurred about a year prior, he could still be mourning her. Maybe trying to learn what happened to her.

...has a neglectful father. How is he trying to interact with his dad? How does he feel about his dad not being around? What is he doing to try to resolve this?

...has a supervillain father. Like, I cannot stress this enough! His dad is a SUPERVILLAIN! His dad is THE SUPERVILLAIN THEY ARE FIGHTING! People were predicting him finding out and joining Gabriel to try and revive his mom! People were living for the eventual heartbreak of when Adrien finds out the truth! Entire AUs, fan arts, and fanfics were born of this very idea! Going into the drama and struggle Adrien would be experiencing being caught between the "right thing" and the girl he loves and his duty vs his father and his mother and his family. HOW CAN THEY JUST IGNORE THIS?!

But we don't get any of that. Instead, we get Adrien...

...just acclimated with no issues in school and automatically friends with everyone. Good for him, I guess. Wish it was that easy for the rest of us.

...doing little besides occasional comments to Chloe as she is completely horrible for five seasons including Chloe stealing from classmates, getting the entire school punished for something she did, stealing a Miraculous, trying to crash a train, and betraying the city to Hawk Moth. But it takes him learning about something she did to Marinette a year ago for him to finally decide enough is enough and drop her as a friend.

...only goes out to deal with akumas as they come but does nothing to try and figure out his powers and history, get stronger, or try to track Hawk Moth.

...just moves on from dead mom. No relevance here aside from wanting to see a movie she was in or making a passing comment about how she got sick. No attempt to find out what happened to her. No questioning what she may have wanted for him.

...is just sad about his neglectful father neglecting him but seems to get over it rather quickly.

...never learns his father is a supervillain. Okay, I take it back. He learns twice and those timelines are erased with no real repercussions other than trauma for Marinette, so it really doesn't feel like they count. The pieces are all there, though! He knows his dad has the grimoire but never questions him about it! Never asks his dad what the deal was with Tibet! No question about how mom died or what is going on with Nathalie or what he's doing with a hidden mechanism in mom's portrait.

Adrien has potential. He has plot threads and aspects that could be used and goals he could have. But the writing does nothing with him, so while he has a number of things he COULD do to move forward and progress as a character or for the plot, nothing comes of it.

And that all boils down to a problem with the writing.

Adrien was chosen over Felix as an "easier" option to keep the story at a standstill so they could drag it out for as long as needed. That doesn't mean it should have been. There were so many paths that could have been taken, but Adrien was given the personality of a wet noodle, so he acts on none of them because that was what the writers wanted out of his character.

In my Unstoppables AU Brick and Tara are siblings, so I thought it'd be fun to edit Tara to have Brick's colors, though I kept her eyes their original color.

I think it's an interesting look, and it helps Tara look more distinct from Jessica, who is also a blue-eyed platinum blonde.

I don't own Tara, but I do own this picture, so please don't use it without my permission.

One thing about Rainbow High that drives me crazy is that River Kendall is supposed to be the teal colored character, my favorite color, but he doesn't actually wear teal.

So, to make myself a little less mad about it, I made an edit where he's actually wearing teal. I left his letterman jacket as is.

And, just for fun, River in teal with his hair the same color as his eyebrows.

Obviously, I know they're not perfect, but I still think they're pretty good.

I think this is all a consequence of the show never allowing Kim to be flawed.

There’s a very niche type of story, with very specific plot that I love within the fandom that (a very, very specific type of KimRon story) that fixes a lot of my issues with the way Kim and some aspects of Kim and Ron were portrayed.

But this ask is getting far too long, I’ll talk about it another time.

We have very different perspectives, but I would love to talk more about the show with you , if you want , you could DM me if you ever up to talking more about the show, you have some interesting takes. 5_5

Yeah, Kim was meant to be perfect from the beginning, so her flaws aren't acknowledged or corrected.

Frankly, after 20 years, it doesn't work for me anymore.

To me, Kim is unrelatable because she succeeds at most things way too easily. And she's unlikeable because she's extremely controlling, competitive, rude, judgmental, and condescending, and refuses to acknowledge it might be a bad thing, even when it hurts people she cares about.

I'd be interested in hearing about this type of story, maybe you could send me a link some time.

And I would love to talk Kim Possible with you, but I can't DM you - you sent all these anonymously, so I have no idea who you are!

Ron was never given any of his own gadgets in the show was he? He was given a communicator in the games and in a stitch in time to keep in contact with kim, but that timeline got delete. And I’m not sure if the games are canon

I never thought about it, it makes episodes like The Fearless Ferret somewhat sad, he really wanted to step out of Kim’s shadow.

Yeah, he was never given his own gadgets. And he always seems impressed by Kim's gadgets.

He was only given a Kimmunicator in "A Sitch in Time", and even then only after Kim had told Wade to make one.

He is sometimes shown using a grappling hook, but Kim's other gadgets are always made for Kim, not Ron.

And it's frustrating that he doesn't get gadgets because even Robin gets gadgets.

Yeah, Ron really wants to step out of Kim's shadow. He wants to be his own hero, or at least considered a partner to Kim, not her inept sidekick.

Alright, addressing several points:

First, the examples @kim-and-ron gave of Ron keeping things to himself are all things that happened after the first episode. They're fairly recent problems, so I don't blame Ron for trying to solve those by himself.

And he didn't keep his self image issues a secret in "Ron the Man", nor did he keep his fears about their future a secret either in "Graduation". So those don't count as examples to your point.

Now, to my point: those were recent problems, but in the past Ron has told Kim about every other problem he's had; Wannaweep, gnomes, robotic horses, etc. Before the first episode, he had never kept his issues a secret from Kim.

@gothicthundra I do agree that it's totally reasonable to still be learning things about each other, and I will concede my point about Shaun as his reign of terror probably began fairly recently.

But if you can agree that the frequency of game nights meant Ron should have known about them, then surely you can agree that the bullying, which was more frequent, is something Kim should have known about?

And, these aren't just people who are mean to Ron, these are people who were attacking him, threatening him, and stealing his money. Since kindergarten.

Are we supposed to believe that at five years old, Ron decided to handle people beating him up and stealing his money on his own?

Are we really going to believe that, in the entire time it's going on, he never had an injury from them, or Kim never wondered were Ron's money has gone?

Or are we supposed to believe that Ron lied about those things, when he's canonically a terrible liar and had no reason to lie in the first place?

He's been getting robbed and attacked since kindergarten, and we're really supposed to believe it never came up before?

As for how I'd fix that scene in "Monkey Fist Strikes", here:

Ron: "I know you and Larry don't have a lot in common, but is game night with him and your Aunt June really so bad?"

Kim: "It's not the game, it's that I'm forced to listen to him talk about his conventions or his "LARPs", and that I've been forced once a month since I was three years old. Last month I learned more than I ever wanted to about that Fortress game."

And there, we have an exposition that explains things to the audience without Ron being ignorant of something that should've come up by now.

And, even though no one's asking, I have a proposal for fixing the issue of Kim not knowing Ron was getting bullied in "Mind Games".

Firstly, we'd have to have the bullying start recently, like Middle School.

Secondly:

Kim: "When you told me you were getting bullied, I thought you were just getting made fun of. I didn't realize it was this bad, and my advice definitely wouldn't have helped. I'm sorry I didn't help earlier."

Ron: "Yeah, I didn't know how to say it, and I figured just avoiding them would work fine. But, thanks."

Kim: "That's what friends are for. You can always come to me if you need help. And I'll try to listen better in the future."

Ron: "Thanks, KP. And hey, it's the same for me, you know?"

Kim: "I know, you'll always be there for me."

Rufus: *chirps*

Ron: "And Rufus!"

Kim: "And Rufus."

And, one final point:

I can kind of see the point about Ron keeping some of his problems to himself, but it seems strange that he never told Kim about his interest in baking. That's not a problem that needs solving, it's a new interest that he was eager to try and share, so why wouldn't he share it with Kim?

Honestly, I am grateful to everyone who's commented on this. I do enjoy hearing everyone's points, even if I don't agree with them.

Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.

And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.

"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.

"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.

"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.

"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.

"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.

"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.

I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?

Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?

Who's Number One: Bonnie, or Kim? (Redux)

FOREWORD: THIS IS NOT A POLL! DO NOT ACTUALLY REPLY WITH YOUR OPINION ON WHO’S NUMBER ONE!

So, when "Number One" first came out, of course we're all rooting for Kim to remain captain. But, now, I don't think Kim really deserved it.

Kim’s skills, especially in cheerleading, should not be doubted. But is Kim really the best fit for captain?

Let’s discuss:

Kim has been doing cheerleading since seventh grade, but Bonnie not only has been doing it longer, but has already been Cheer Captain before.

(In "A Sitch in Time" she was the one assigning routines to the girls trying out, implying that, even if she wasn't the captain, she was at least some kind of authority in the squad.)

Over the course of one week, Bonnie organized a fundraiser, raised money for new uniforms, and wrote and choreographed a new cheer. Kim did nothing other than expecting Bonnie to just fail on her own.

The one time Kim's mentioned as doing any of that, it ended up with all the cheerleaders in a pile after Kim's dismount from the pyramid, as Kim crashed into all of them during her dance. Given that they were all standing around, it's possible that they couldn't follow Kim's routine very well. ("Mind Games")

In "Queen Bebe" Kim was supposed to write a new routine for the squad, but was unable to do so because of all her other obligations.

In "The Full Monkey" Kim showed up to practice tired and missed her cue, causing Bonnie to trip and fall. Luckily, Bonnie was uninjured. However, we get an interesting quote from Bonnie in this episode:

Bonnie: Looks like Miss Perfect's going to leave us hanging. So typ.

This implies that this is not the first time Kim's had trouble keeping her commitment to the squad.

Obviously, it kind of sucks that Kim's so busy saving the world that she has a hard time doing things like cheerleading, but she can be a cheerleader without being the captain.

And the squad deserves to have someone in charge who can actually do the job. Whatever the reason is for Kim being unable to do it, it's not fair to keep letting the squad down again and again. Bonnie was definitely a better fit for captain.

(As much as Bonnie hates Kim, she's not going to kick Kim off the squad just because. She let Kim join in "A Sitch in Time" because of her skill, even though she didn't want to, so she wouldn't kick Kim off unless it would be better for the squad that way.)

And it's really surprising that we're supposed to assume Bonnie quit being captain.

Bonnie's not lazy. At all. She's shown to have been taking dance lessons for a long time, got good grades in school, put a lot of work into becoming captain, was (most likely) captain before, and, most importantly, the whole reason she challenged Kim for the captain spot in the first place was because Kim couldn't do the work.

And Kim didn't even try to prove she should still be captain. She did nothing to deserve it, not even sell a chocolate bar. She just expected Bonnie to fail on her own.

So, even if Bonnie was going to give up the job of captain, she wouldn't give it back to Kim. Anyone other than Kim would be better in Bonnie's eyes.

I get that, as the main character, we’re supposed to root for Kim, but in this particular episode, the only reason to root for Kim is because she’s the main character, not because she actually deserved it.

And that's not fair to the viewers or the characters.