Does "narcissist Abuse" Exist?

Does "narcissist abuse" exist?

Well, I'll try to think of this as unbiased as possible.

Narcissist and Abuser are not synonymous. Many narcissists make an effort to not harm others and have never been or are currently not abusers.

NPD is a disorder with different presentations and sufferers have differents traits and severities: some narcissists are aggressive and external; some are more internal; some may be concerned with being a good person; some may overcompensate for their narcissism; some may take out the issues of their disorder on others; some may have trouble self-reflecting and hurt others; some may never hurt anyone; some may know how to deal with their traits while others may not.

NPD is a disorder that impacts both the sufferer and the people around them. It is important to talk about the sufferer, but also to acknowledge that it affects others as well. Especially if someone is untreated and unaware of their disorder.

It can cause someone to hurt others if it is left unchecked, if they were taught to hurt others, if they are unaware of their behavior, if they lack self-control, or if they simply have no desire to be a good person.

An abuser with NPD's reasons and ways of abusing someone may be different, just as an abuser with autism's would...and an abuser with depression, an abuser with bipolar, an abuser with schizophrenia, or an abuser who is not mentally ill at all.

I have heard a story about a woman with schizophrenia who was convinced her children were possessed by the devil and tried to attack them. Does this mean everyone with schizophrenia is dangerous? No. Absolutely not. Did her disorder affect the way she treated others in a negative way? Yes, because it presented in this way, and she was completely unaware and untreated. She is a victim in the fact she was dealing with these delusions and this fear, just as her children were victims for having to deal with the way she acted. Again: someone being schizophrenic does not mean they will hurt you. If someone who is schizophrenic tries to hurt you, that isn't representative of everyone with schizophrenia. (Many people with schizophrenia do not try to harm people at all.)

I also heard about the difficulties of a child living with bipolar mother who treated her disorder with alcohol, causing her to accidentally harm her child in many ways. Obviously, her disorder and addiction are relevant in talking about the experience, but we all know people with bipolar disorder are not abusers just because they are bipolar; and addicts are not abusers just because they are addicts.

Abuse can be done on accident, especially if someone was raised around it or thinking it was okay, or if they have a disorder affecting how they see things. In some cases, explaining and trying to help people realize their behavior can work. In others, it won't; some people don't want to listen or get better. If thats the case, thats on them. But no matter what, abuse is a choice. It can be done without awareness; but it is still a choice.

Anyone can be an abuser, and the equation of one disorder with abuse is not only dehumanizing to the people with this disorder, but can actually hurt victims of abusers who aren't narcissists, or victims who are narcissists.

My point is that it can be relevant to say your abuser had NPD. But someone being an abuser doesn't mean they are a narcissist, and the NPD isn't what needs highlighted...its the abuse. Yes, you can say your abuser had NPD, I don't think it's wrong to make a space to discuss this with people who had a similar experience either.

Many people in my family are narcissists/narcissistic, and quite a few of them hurt people or have been abusive. So I won't deny that a lot of narcissists (especially ones who externalize their narcissism and who are completely untreated, also when they refuse to admit they have a problem) treat others badly. I also know some of them don't actually have bad intentions and that others do have (in a way) bad intentions. Some were raised to think it was okay. I also know of narcissists who internalize it, who are aware of their narcissism, who do their best to not hurt others, who are victims themselves.

NPD should be talked about from the perspective of people with NPD, but this doesn't mean people who dealt with abusive people with NPD can't talk about it. As I said, I had no problem with an article about an abusive mother who had bipolar disorder; it was relevant.

A lot of "narcissistic abuse" described is just abuse. A list of abusive behaviors doesn't need to say narcissist at the top. It is completely irrelevant. Say it if it is relevant.

---

TLDR; Your abuser being a narcissist can be relevant, and you can talk about it, narcissists can be abusers and their disorder can play a part in it. But not all narcissists are abusers, and "narcissist" is equated with abuser. This is why people do not like the term "narcissistic abuse." It, in a way, equates narcissism with abuse. "Narcissistic abuse" is as real as "autistic abuse" or "bipolar abuse."

Don't use narcissist as a word for abuser. Say it if it's relevant.

I have no problem with a subreddit, therapy group, or community for people who dealt with abusive narcissists, but I want people to not perpetuate a stigma.

I sympathize with those who were abused, but narcissism isn't abuse; abuse is abuse. Narcissism can play a part, but that is not what the abuse is, and that is not THE cause of the abuse.

Abuse is abuse, and anyone can abuse.

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Genocide

Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:

1. Killing members of the group

2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life is calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group

5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

There are a number of other serious, violent crimes that do not fall under the specific definition of genocide. They include crimes against humanity, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and mass killing.

https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/what-is-genocide

yo ima write a professional level article, im trying to gather resources and you may have a few. Please try to get me some for these topics

what really happened in nakba

the origin of the word Palestine (how Arabians didn’t make the word)

a timeline on the Israeli/palestine land mass

Palestinians stories (I do need a rebuttal of sorts as well, so try to get a variety of cases)

numbers on death counts

what the UN considers genocide

Hitlers reasoning for the holocaust (anything like “it’s not about religion” and shit like that)

and just anything else that you think will help me write an article about the complexity :3

nakba - not the expert here but from my understanding is it was a messy war that left generations resentful of each other. Nakba deniers will be blocked and their responses mocked

Palestine comes from the word phillitine and was imposed by the Romans on Judeans to imply they weren't indigenous to the area (sound familiar). It was anglicized to Palestine and the British insisted on calling Israel that from the crusades and until WW2 (hence why Palestine is mentioned in Othello).

The nice little map where the evil israelis Jews are taking over more and more of the original Palestine that the British gave to the arabs and the arabs only is as false as the narrative in the previous sentence. I have yet to see a good map on the subject.

Somebody get me the Palestinean that the columbia university protesters blocked because he didn't fit their narrative, the homochadensis post where gazans curse Bisan Owida and reveal she's a grifter who stole money from them and her readers, and the famous video of the mothers and grandmothers who prove that Hamas is stealing their aid.

NO ONE knows the true death count because one side needs to downplay it for PR and the other needs them to be the worst war in history for sympathy and outrage points but Gaza ministry of health fabricates all their numbers and lists a child three times to "bring attention to the loss" aka inflate their death count

Bro that's a googable document on the Un's on website.

OK THIS is my area of expertise. Hitler fell in with a eugenicist crowd of antisemites that believes lesser races needed to be killed our enslaved by those they deemed aryan. Those who were aryan (western europeans) were meant to rule the world, slavs, asians and arabs were to have their populations murdered by about 50 but the rest would live on as second class citizens and then Jews and Roma were to genocided completely because they were seen as "parasitic races" that brought only harm and would not be allowed to survive. The latter two groups were uniquely targeted, have not recovered either physiological or in terms of population. It was NEVER about religion and all about race and racist pseudoscience

Also static you don't need to prove your right to existance and self determination to those who want you dead so much they tried driving you to suicide

Followers?


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2 years ago

Ah, that answers a lot of questions thank you.

A little while ago you reblogged(?) a post about not using certain monsters because they belong to certain cultures unless you belong to those cultures - I’m not trying to be offensive or ignorant, I was just wondering, if enough research is done and appropriate respect is taken to those origins, is it ok to use them? I mean, is there something to be said about sharing parts of stories? Is it any different than using monsters from Greek mythology?

You’re referring to this post.

It’s complicated, but it boils down to “Since so often the research isn’t done and appropriate respect isn’t given to the originating cultures, it is better to err on the side of caution; as part of that, abstain from using those entities (especially as they’re typically presented in pop culture), and instead use these substitutes.” 

I mean, is there something to be said about sharing parts of stories?

Yes, there is something to be said about sharing–when it’s shared by someone who it belongs to.  Otherwise, it’s theft.  And cultural theft–of dominant cultures taking the “fun bits” of cultures that they find interesting and discarding the rest–is a massive problem right now.  

Let me give an example that’s particular to my culture.  My culture is Jewish–or, speaking more specifically, Rabbinic Judaism, which developed from Pharisaic Judaism after the destruction of the Holy Temple by Rome almost two millennia ago.  For the last 1900 years, my culture has been living in diaspora at the (dubious) mercy of gentiles, and we’ve developed a wide array of religiously and culturally meaningful rituals, stories, foods and so forth.  These cultural artifacts are ours, and I can say without hyperbole that we have been brutalized and killed for practicing these parts of our culture.  We have paid, in blood and lives, for our right to these practices as part of who we are.

Now, after centuries of having killed us for our culture, Christians are instead stealing bits of Rabbinic Judaism’s cultural practices for themselves.  Christian “Seders” at Passover are a thing.  Christians write thinkpieces on why they should celebrate Channukah.  After centuries of persecuting Jews for practicing Judaism, It’s considered cute and trendy to take the “fun bits” of Judaism for themselves.  (And that’s not even touching “Messianic judaism” and it’s wholesale theft of Rabbinic Judaism’s cultural practices in an effort to convert Jews by trickery).  

Imagine how I feel about that sort of theft, seeing it again and again and again…

So you’re asking me if you can use the Golem in your stories?

Well, why should you?  Do you know that the Golem was made as a protector by the head rabbi of Prague to protect the Jewish community against the Christian community during a period of repeated accusations of Blood Libel?  That it was essentially made as a defender that wouldn’t abandon us, that wouldn’t take our money and turn on us like mercenaries did, when the mobs came with torches and knives to kill the Jews who they believed were kidnapping Christian children to use their blood?  That it was a story told by Jewish parents to Jewish children that we would have a magical bulwark to stand between us and a world that wanted to kill us in horrible fashions?  

Why should you take that and get to turn it into a generic constructed monster built by a wizard as a dumb defender of his wizard’s tower when there is a perfectly acceptable substitute in the form of elementals, which don’t have that baggage of coming from an abused culture watching the stories that they’ve kept for themselves be torn away from them and used for the enjoyment of the people who persecuted them?  Why do you have to take it?  Why does your desire for it outweigh our wish that you leave it to us?

As for the difference with the Greeks–while the Greek pagans are making a comeback, the original religion of the Greeks has been destroyed and paved over with Christianity.  There’s a fundamental difference between taking from a dead culture and a living persecuted one.  


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descriptions & details below

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image descriptions:

an ink line drawing of a black heart with four angelic eyed wings, over a ring of flame around it and the word הנני

an ink drawing of a pair of tongs, with flames wrapping around them that contain the words ועשיתם אתם

an ink line drawing of a hyena skull, surrounded by thorns with a pair of bat wings above it and the letter ש

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9 months ago

hey guys! I’m in a little bind this month. And I really need money for food. I’m accepting commissions, just please help me out. I’m only accepting 5 right now. please share !! I’m getting stressed out, and I just can’t do anything, I’m fucking uhhshbd.


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1 year ago

i’m a little anxious to send this not on anon but i saw one of your posts where a comment mentioned jewish conversion and you seemed to support it. my boyfriend is jewish and i would like to convert to judaism but a lot of the research i’ve done says that you can’t convert, you have to be born into it since it’s an ethno-religion. i know everyone has different beliefs about this but i worry i won’t be accepted

Hello tyblackthornsheadphones, welcome!

"my boyfriend is jewish and i would like to convert to judaism"

Oooh! Mozel tov! I'm always so happy to meet new people who want to join the Jewish community! <3

"a lot of the research i’ve done says that you can’t convert, you have to be born into it since it’s an ethno-religion"

Oh dear, I'm so sorry to hear that! D: There's so much misinformation being passed around online. :( Thankfully, I'm happy to report that those sources are incorrect: It IS possible to convert to Judaism. ^_^

Like any group, though, how friendly any given Jew is to potential Jewish converts depends on the individual and/or the group they belong in. Just as there's elitism and gatekeeping in every group of people ever (like high school cliques and video game circles--"you're not a REAL gamer unless X"), unfortunately you'll also find some snobbery, elitism, and gatekeeping in Judaism. :(

Though I think Rabbi Friedman has a very loving and accepting view of Jews by conversion. ^_^

The way I see it, the differing experiences of a "Jew-by-birth vs a Jew-by-conversion" can be comparable to an American citizen who was just born on American soil vs an American immigrant who had to go through a long and rigorous bureaucratic process to become an American citizen--they have to learn everything there is to know about American history, presidents, laws, customs, the legal system; spend a "probational period" living in America to become a naturalized citizen, etc.

(The Jewish religion used to be very conversion friendly, but that came to an end when Christianity and Islam became huge world powers who outlawed the Jewish community "tempting" good Christians or Muslims away from the One True Faith.

Jewish identity also used to be passed down from father to children in ancient times--as you'll see in the Torah--but that was changed by Hillel the Elder during the tyrannical reign of King Herod--yes, THAT King Herod! Hillel did this partly to give the children of Jewish mothers who were abandoned by their non-Jewish fathers a place in Jewish society, and he did this partly as a big old political "fuck you!" to King Herod, whose father was only nominally Jewish and his mother was a foreign gentile woman.)

Chabad is an Orthodox Jewish organization.

How to Convert to Judaism - What to Expect at a Conversion
chabad.org
I’m planning to convert to Judaism. This has been something I’ve been considering and mulling over for years, and I’ve made my decision. Wha
Choosing Judaism: Learn the Basics
Reform Judaism
People convert to Judaism for many reasons. Learn the basic facts about converting to Judaism, and how to take the first steps.

And here's a link from a Reform Judaism POV. ^_^

In my experience, Reform Jewish synagogues and organizations tend to be more accepting of and friendly to Jewish converts. (Though it's not universal! Sadly, there are snobs everywhere. D:)

So if I were you, I would just start with checking out some books on Judaism from your local library, attend Friday night or Saturday morning Shabbat services with your boyfriend (that's usually a time when non-Jewish guests attend).

If your local college has a Hillel or Chabad Jewish student organization, I would visit that too! They usually host fun events that are free and open to to all, especially students who're just interested in connecting with other Jewish students, and learning about Jewish identity. ^_^

In the meantime, I'd just take time to study and learn about Jewish history and culture just for fun.

I think Sam Aranow's "Jewish History" Youtube series is a very entertaining way to learn about Jewish history, from ancient to modern.

Unfortunately I have to go to work now, but if you have ANY other questions, please reach out to me! I LOVE sharing knowledge and resources about Judaism, especially to potential converts who show a genuine interest and curiosity.

(Jewish culture can be, in my opinion, not as accepting and welcoming of potential Jewish converts as they should be, and I want to make up the difference. ^_^ )


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potato-frend-blog - HellofellowHumanz.
HellofellowHumanz.

age:19 fandoms: FF14, MLP:FIM, HTTYD!movie, MHA, KH, Genshin Impact, etc. Hobbies: Art and Video games She/they (Deviant Art: https://www.deviantart.com/rainbowponypotato) ( AO3: https://archiveofourown.org/users/Potato_frend) I'm thinking about setting up a small business for my art. Any Tips for doing so are welcome.

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