I Don't Know If This Has Been Talked About Before, But I Really Disliked The Way The Careers Were Characterised

Evil Athena Cykes

Character Idea: defense attorney whose gimmick is similar to Psyche Locks except instead of figuring out what they’re lying about with logic, you just have to figure out which insults would be the most hurtful to that particular person until they break down and cry. Her name is Eris Charge

His Trust...

That's such a good point. There’s also the fact that their both involved with Phoenix but Krisnix is super popular as a toxic ship while I've seen almost zero Phoenix x Dahlia. I haven't played Apollo Justice but Kristoph and Dahlia have so many parallels that this disparity in the fandom is insane to me (poison? manipulator? manipulates a sibling to do their dirty work? polite/pleasant facade?).

Dahlia has so much potential that's literally right there in canon, why are we ignoring it?

god remind me one day to go on like. a proper rant about how people in the fandom treat dahlia vs how they treat kristoph. kristoph is seen as some mastermind who has some deep secret trauma because it’s vaguely hinted at while we KNOW for a fact that dahlia definitely has a fuckton of trauma between what we see in the flashback case and just, her involvement in the fey family in general but especially how she specifically was treated but????? nobody fucking cares??? like sure she’s not justified but neither is kristoph and i’ve still seen people arguing that he is. he’s so babygirlified by the fandom and i fucking hate it. people are tagging him in posts about evil WOMEN. dahlia is RIGHT. THERE. like my fault for expecting people to give basic respect to women but good fucking lird i could not make this kind of shit up if i tried you people are ridiculous

I think Miles feeling like his father would be disappointed in him is far more interesting if he came to that conclusion by himself instead of being "taught" to believe so by an external factor or being somehow trained to be something Gregory would have "hated" (and let's be real, Gregory would not flip a switch and hate anybody for anything, let alone his son).

Miles feeling like this by himself means there was a moment of self-reflection, even if that reflection did not reach the actually correct conclusion. It offers opportunities to explore how his brain works, themes of survivors guilt and grief that linger long after dl-6. That's interesting! That's intriguing!

What do you get from deciding there was some grand plan to form him into "a person Gregory would hate" (despite the obvious problems with that logic in the first place)? Cartoon villainy I guess? That's not very fun to explore...

I'm sorry but as much as I love and ship narumitsu, Miles's "unnecessary feelings" line is primarily about him questioning his morals and methods as a prosecutor. Miles who was believed he was doing good and enacting justice by getting guilty verdicts for all defendants, who lost faith in finding the truth because he couldn't trust anyone anymore. He was shown that the truth is not so unobtainable by Phoenix, and he began to question if he was truly doing the right thing all along. That's why I love the "unnecessary feelings" line so much; it marks the start of Miles's redemption arc.

Of course you can headcanon the "unnecessary feelings" line to have romantic implications. But Klavier gets my vote in this case.

No worries! It's pretty easy to miss.

Basically in Bridge to the Turnabout, Larry himself implies that two of his previous girlfriends have hit him. This is what he says when he's on the stand testifying about witnessing the lightning strike:

Yeah, I don't think there's any other way to interpret these lines. Poor Larry... someone needs to teach him what a healthy relationship is like.

Currently halfway through Bridge to the Turnabout and no one told me I'd end up feeling bad for Larry. I feel like the developers made it their mission to hate on him specifically. And honestly out of every Ace Attorney character with trauma that gets unaddressed, why does it feel like Larry gets treated the worst by the game.

Everyone thinks he's useless and annoying. But I think the judge was correct when he said Larry has "quite a severe inferiority complex". Larry casually drops that he's been physically abused by two of his ex-girlfriends, but seems to think it's perfectly fine. He seems to believe he's utterly worthless and that he makes people "eternally unhappy". But he never changes because he suppresses his trauma so hard that he forgets about them. He actually feels so bad for screwing up in The Stolen Turnabout but instead of genuinely working on himself, he adopts a new identity because he can't stand himself probably.

But AA1 clearly shows that Larry is not "useless" or a "nuisance". After all Phoenix also wanted to repay Larry for defending him during the class trial. And not to mention Larry saved Edgeworth with his testimony in 1-4. Oh Larry you'll always be a part of the signal samurai trio.

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈Happy Pride 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

I was writing a response to this but it got so long that I wanted to make it it's own post. (Click the link for a more in depth analysis :)

But to summarize, I think RTFA confirming Miles Edgeworth didn't intentionally forge evidence aligns with his established character in the first four cases. Mainly because Edgeworth is characterized as someone who does care about the truth even before his return in 2-4. After all he forfeits his win in 1-3 to help Phoenix convict Vasquez.

I like this choice too and I don't think it really softens his character arc. Edgeworth still hides evidence, updates autopsy reports, and coaches witness statements. He's still incredibly ruthless and has convicted innocent people. Honestly it's the fandom that constantly softens Miles's character and barely holds him accountable for his actions.

theres a lot you could say about miles edgeworth being reconned out of (being implied to) forge evidence in rise from the ashes and how it kind of softens his character arc but in the end the only opinion i really have is that you either have to take all of it or none of it at all. not everyone has played investigations 2 yet but after the release of the official localization people will have no excuse not to recognize that manfred von karma was also didnt forge evidence and was just tricked into doing it by the chief prosecutor in whats surely a deliberate parallel to the rfta situation. you either need to take these two together or take neither of them. theres a lot to be said either way and the fact the writers made this choice both at all and for von karma specifically is very interesting and i honestly like it as a character choice for both of them

You literally pulled the thoughts out of my head!! I agree with everything you said about Edgeworth in 1-4. I just didn’t include it in my post because then we’d be here all day.

I think RTFA confirming that Miles Edgeworth didn't intentionally forge evidence does align with his established character in the first four cases and isn't a retcon. It does take away some audience interpretation but personally I'm fine with that.

First of all I don't think the rest of AA1 ever confirmed it one way or the other. There are a few instances where Phoenix thinks of Edgeworth as an evidence forger but it's not like Phoenix would know for sure either. (Do correct me, with specific lines please, if I'm wrong though).

But more importantly, if you only look at the first four cases of AA1 Edgeworth being an evidence forger doesn't make sense with his character. Why would a prosecutor forge evidence? Not including reasons like being blackmailed. 1) If they don't care (enough) about the truth (prioritizing things like success over it), or 2) if they truly believe the defendant is guilty and are desperate for a conviction (aka the reason Adrian Andrews forges evidence in 2-4).

Does Edgeworth care about the truth, before coming back in 2-4?

Yes, I'd say so. One thing that still kind of surprises me is just how quickly Edgeworth changes sides and begins to fight for the truth. It happens at the end of 1-3.

You could argue that Edgeworth had already lost once to Phoenix and thought "screw this, my perfect record is already gone, another loss wouldn't change that fact". But compare him to two characters who are actually obsessed with their perfect records. Manfred, a perfectionist control-freak, getting a penalty (not even losing!) unraveled him so much that he killed Gregory in the heat of the moment. Franziska after losing in 2-2 declares that: "That spirit channeling trial was a sham! I refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy! It did not count!" She doesn't even want to admit that she lost. Edgeworth, on the other hand, doesn't act like someone who truly prioritizes his win record over the truth.

Because Edgeworth didn't just let himself lose in 1-3, he made himself lose. He made Vasquez testify again. She would have gotten away if Edgeworth didn't say anything. And after the trial he tells the judge "Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural… not a miracle."

Okay but if Edgeworth does care about the truth, and believed that every defendant being guilty was the truth, he could have easily gone down the path of forging evidence to ensure the verdict reflected what he believed to be true. That leads me to my next question:

2. Does Edgeworth truly believe that every defendant he prosecutes is guilty?

Actually no. He says this in Turnabout Sisters: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

Yeah I think that line speaks for itself.

Miles Edgeworth's duality pre-redemption is this: he cares about the truth, but he's lost faith in finding it. So he commits himself to getting guilty verdicts because he believes that's the best shot he has at enacting justice, even if he accidentally convicts innocent people from time to time.

And to me that aligns with his reaction to finding out he unknowingly used forged evidence in 1-5. Edgeworth was so disillusioned with finding the truth that he has accepted that some collateral damage would inevitably happen as a result of his mindset. However, because he still can't let go of his dedication to the truth, he wouldn't want to lie or rewrite the facts to achieve his verdicts.

Iris is a personal fav for me!