Evil Athena Cykes

something's gone terribly wrong

(you're all i wanted)

I'm so tired of hearing that Phoenix saved Miles without hearing about any of its implications.

Because Phoenix's savior complex is a major problem not a solution. Because Wrightworth is not about Phoenix saving Miles, it's about them saving each other. Because in Farewell My Turnabout, Miles Edgeworth said "We aren't some sort of heroes. We're only human." and he was right.

You literally pulled the thoughts out of my head!! I agree with everything you said about Edgeworth in 1-4. I just didn’t include it in my post because then we’d be here all day.

I think RTFA confirming that Miles Edgeworth didn't intentionally forge evidence does align with his established character in the first four cases and isn't a retcon. It does take away some audience interpretation but personally I'm fine with that.

First of all I don't think the rest of AA1 ever confirmed it one way or the other. There are a few instances where Phoenix thinks of Edgeworth as an evidence forger but it's not like Phoenix would know for sure either. (Do correct me, with specific lines please, if I'm wrong though).

But more importantly, if you only look at the first four cases of AA1 Edgeworth being an evidence forger doesn't make sense with his character. Why would a prosecutor forge evidence? Not including reasons like being blackmailed. 1) If they don't care (enough) about the truth (prioritizing things like success over it), or 2) if they truly believe the defendant is guilty and are desperate for a conviction (aka the reason Adrian Andrews forges evidence in 2-4).

Does Edgeworth care about the truth, before coming back in 2-4?

Yes, I'd say so. One thing that still kind of surprises me is just how quickly Edgeworth changes sides and begins to fight for the truth. It happens at the end of 1-3.

You could argue that Edgeworth had already lost once to Phoenix and thought "screw this, my perfect record is already gone, another loss wouldn't change that fact". But compare him to two characters who are actually obsessed with their perfect records. Manfred, a perfectionist control-freak, getting a penalty (not even losing!) unraveled him so much that he killed Gregory in the heat of the moment. Franziska after losing in 2-2 declares that: "That spirit channeling trial was a sham! I refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy! It did not count!" She doesn't even want to admit that she lost. Edgeworth, on the other hand, doesn't act like someone who truly prioritizes his win record over the truth.

Because Edgeworth didn't just let himself lose in 1-3, he made himself lose. He made Vasquez testify again. She would have gotten away if Edgeworth didn't say anything. And after the trial he tells the judge "Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural… not a miracle."

Okay but if Edgeworth does care about the truth, and believed that every defendant being guilty was the truth, he could have easily gone down the path of forging evidence to ensure the verdict reflected what he believed to be true. That leads me to my next question:

2. Does Edgeworth truly believe that every defendant he prosecutes is guilty?

Actually no. He says this in Turnabout Sisters: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

Yeah I think that line speaks for itself.

Miles Edgeworth's duality pre-redemption is this: he cares about the truth, but he's lost faith in finding it. So he commits himself to getting guilty verdicts because he believes that's the best shot he has at enacting justice, even if he accidentally convicts innocent people from time to time.

And to me that aligns with his reaction to finding out he unknowingly used forged evidence in 1-5. Edgeworth was so disillusioned with finding the truth that he has accepted that some collateral damage would inevitably happen as a result of his mindset. However, because he still can't let go of his dedication to the truth, he wouldn't want to lie or rewrite the facts to achieve his verdicts.

That’s it. THAT’S what SOTR should’ve been.

As someone who has spent way too much time thinking about Haymitch, I always suspected that the first sparks of resistance started around the 50th (mostly based on the symbolism of Maysilee being established as the OG owner of the mockingjay pin, really). The Capitol suddenly reaping double the amount of kids? That’s majorly pushing the boundaries of what even the most oppressed districts would accept. People are angry. People are restless.

Then, out of nowhere, comes this kid from the most underprivileged loser district of them all, and he has no qualms about announcing that he doesn’t give a shit about their games. Instead of dying a quiet and swift death like he was supposed to as a D12 tribute, he then proceeds to use his sheer force of will, an outrageous amount of audacity and his own intelligence and wits to crawl his way to the biggest fluke victory ever, ruining their grand quarter quell.

That’s it. That’s enough to inspire resistance, wouldn’t you think?

The force field thing was bad, but not kill your entire family bad. I think the killings would’ve happened in response to rising unrest post 2QQ in district 12 and perhaps even other places - know where your place is, or you’ll end up like Haymitch.

We did not need a contrived plot to blow up the arena. We just didn’t. And the evidence of what she originally intended is still right there in the text. I think so, anyway.

Phoenix is the one good at performing and Miles is the authentic one, right? It doesn’t fit them 100% of course, but I cannot see it the other way around.

Phoenix is an “insufferable emotionalist”, yes, and his emotional reactions are very genuine. But when he’s expressing emotions it’s almost always about other people; saving other people, believing in other people. When it comes to his personal issues, he is a closed book. He never says a word about Miles’s disappearance or Dahlia’s betrayal to anyone. Phoenix might not have multiple masks but he’s the one who took this piece of advice from Mia to heart: “for a lawyer, the worst of times are when you have to force your biggest smiles”. That’s his performance: the defender, the savior.

Phoenix is so driven by his attachments to other people that it feels like he doesn’t have an identity outside of it. He became a lawyer for Miles, twice. He pretty much only takes cases because Maya drags him to or one of his friends is the defendant. He doesn't function well when he's alone. You can't tell me he has a stable sense of self.

Miles suppresses his emotions, yes, and in the first game has a crisis over who he was as a prosecutor. But he doesn't perform. He holds himself to personal standards of perfection and doesn't care as much what other people think of him. And he's always authentic in his morals. He always tries to do what he thinks is the right thing, even during his "Demon Prosecutor" days. He thought getting every defendant a "guilty" verdict was the only way to get justice. It's the truth that makes him change his ways. It's pursuing the truth that becomes his main motivation. And isn't that the definition of authenticity?

Miles also 100% does see through Phoenix: "We aren't some sort of heroes. We're only human, you and I". Miles sees past Phoenix's performance. I think he might be the only person to ever address it.

Phoenix Wright is not the excruciatingly authentic and bright sunshine. He is the mirrorball who only shines so brightly because he reflects everyone else’s light.

But it's mutual. They see through each other. And that is probably my favorite part of wrightworth.

Actually, “Feenie” Makes Perfect Sense as a Backstory for Phoenix (+ 3-1 Initial Thoughts)

I've decided to start a series where I record my thoughts and analysis as I play through the Ace Attorney games for the first time. I'll try to post these as soon as I finish a case so that my thoughts are fresh.

Phoenix Wright/"Feenie"

I've noticed critiques in this fandom that "Feenie" from Turnabout Memories is too different from Phoenix in the trilogy or that the backstory is poorly inserted. But, honestly I disagree. It's easy to treat Phoenix and Feenie as different people because of their different outfits and mannerisms, but I think the characterization is consistent (despite "Feenie" being exaggerated sometimes for comedic effect).

I've seen the fandom portray "Feenie" as a sweet pushover. But if anything, his belief is extremely stubborn and strong-willed. Phoenix believed in true love and fate which was why he accepts that necklace in the first place. He also never relents to Dahlia (or should I say Iris) when she asks for the necklace back.

He’s only able to be used and manipulated by Dahlia because his own goals and beliefs aligned with the facade she presented to him.

Phoenix literally shoves a guy so hard that he fell onto his back because he badmouthed Dahlia. I think one constant of Phoenix's character is that he cares too deeply and is protective over the people he loves.

There's also the part where Phoenix mocks Doug for being British? or wearing the British flag (I didn’t take a screenshot of it). “Feenie” is just as sassy and judgmental as Phoenix is. He might be a lot more naive and immature but he's still Phoenix.

Oh Phoenix... back when you believed in people saving you... before you bottled up your problems and refused to let anyone help you...

To be fair he is the defendant here but still. He doesn't ask for support after Edgeworth disappears, he doesn't ask for help at first when Maya is kidnapped.

I think, unfortunately, this incident with Dahlia is what kickstarted a lot of his trust and abandonment issues. His overwhelmingly strong belief and trust in Dahlia backfired in the worst way possible. It’s not a stretch that this made him too terrified of betrayal to open up to anyone in the trilogy.

So I know this is for comedic effect, but it’s also really good proof that Phoenix heavily idealizes the people he gets super attached to.

(Coughs in Edgeworth and Justice for All)

… I mean he’s not wrong! But he’s also being delusional

This is one of the first things Phoenix says after finding out he was betrayed. He doesn't spend much time acknowledging his feelings of hurt. He just goes into denial.

(COUGHS IN EDGEWORTH AND JUSTICE FOR ALL)

This is just further proof for me that Phoenix’s coping mechanisms are suppression and delusion.

And then Phoenix immediately he moves on to saving Edgeworth! He just shoves all that trauma aside to fixate on saving someone else... to cope by giving himself more control. Phoenix's savior complex stems from abandonment issues.

This trial doesn't give Phoenix the idea to save Edgeworth, it solidifies it.

After being reminded by Mia of his belief that a defense attorney saves people, Phoenix firmly sets himself on this path.

There it is. Phoenix says it himself... he suppressed these memories. That's why he never brought it up in the last two games. I know the real reason is because the creators didn’t plan it, but it also makes sense narratively.

I mean, Phoenix hides the class trial story until Turnabout Goodbyes. This man does not like to talk about his problems or trauma.

Mia Fey

Damn Mia is so brutal. Is this where Phoenix gets his sass from?

Mia is also not how I expected her to be. I mean whenever she gets channeled to help Phoenix out, she's in the role of the wise mentor. But here? She's a nervous wreck, cynical of romance, and full of trust issues.

Speaking of trust issues... I unfortunately did not take a screenshot of this but as soon as Mia finds out Phoenix has lying to her, she reacts very strongly with distrust. She also has to convince herself multiple times to trust in him again. Believing in people or trusting them doesn't seem to come easy to Mia. Which is super interesting because her advice is to always believe in your client. Maybe Mia eventually got used to trusting her clients but... she also never tells Phoenix about her investigation in Redd White. I don't think Mia is as trusting as she presents herself as.

Here’s our girl

Still not very good at digital art but I don’t mind how this one turned out :)

Click for higher res

One thing I love about Miles Edgeworth is how realistic and practical he is, more than he is moralistic. As much as Miles cares about justice and doing what he thinks is right, he’s not fueled by belief the same way, for example, Phoenix is. And this is one of the things I feel like gets ignored or brushed aside when Miles's character is softened too much.

Both pre and post redemption, Miles puts a lot of emphasis on reality and the bottom line of what people can do in a situation.

In Turnabout Goodbyes, the first thing Edgeworth says in response to Phoenix asking him why he became a prosecutor instead of a defense attorney is: "… I couldn't let myself deny reality like you."

He also doesn't truly believe that every defendant he prosecutes is guilty, contrary to popular belief. In Turnabout Sisters, he says this: ""Innocent"…? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy." Miles is disillusioned with finding the truth and trusting people that he settles for doing all he can hope to do.

And when you think about it, his motivation of finding the truth is an extension of his realism. After all, the truth is quite literally the most objective, realistic thing ever. In 1-3, after helping Phoenix convict Dee Vasquez, he says: "Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural… not a miracle." The truth as a motivation is probably a grounding force for him.

When Miles comes back in Farewell My Turnabout, he calls out Phoenix's flawed motivations for becoming a defense attorney by offering realism: "We aren't some sort of heroes. We're only human, you and I. You want to "save someone"? That's something easier said than done, wouldn't you say? You are a defense lawyer. You can't run away from that. You can only fight. That's all you can do." Miles isn't saying Phoenix can't "save someone". Miles is saying that Phoenix shouldn't be so focused on saving someone that he forgets that his job as a defense attorney is only to fight for them.

Side note, I love the way Miles comforts people, he isn't exactly "nice" but he's incredibly kind. His blunt honesty digs at the heart of the matter, and he gives them an extra push because he respects them enough.

And then there's, possibly, my favorite Miles Edgeworth line: "It doesn't matter how many underhanded tricks a person uses… The truth will always find a way to make itself known. The only thing we can do is to fight with the knowledge we hold and everything we have. Erasing the paradoxes one by one… It's never easy… We claw and scratch for every inch. But we will always eventually reach that one single truth. This I promise you." This directly parallels the line he says in 1-2, and it makes me emotional every time I think about it.

The fact that Miles Edgeworth never lost his unwavering realism, in both quotes he acknowledges how untrustworthy people can be, but gained a new purpose.

Manfred von Karma!

Thank you for the ask <3 (to every else who sent me a character ask, I'm working on it :)

First impression

I actually never hated him or had strong feelings about him. I was introduced to AA through narumitsu fanfic but I knew I wanted to play the games so I avoided everything with spoilers, including everything Manfred. I guess I just thought of him vaguely as a villain and Miles' mentor/father figure.

Impression now

He's one of my favorite Ace Attorney characters. I have him at 4th but honestly, maybe he's 3rd now?? I have developed an attachment to this ridiculous evil man. I love him so much. I wish there was more canon content of him, but I think he's an interesting character with a lot of room for nuance.

Favorite moment

He doesn't really have many canon moments (and I haven't played AAI). But probably when he gloated Phoenix into cross-examining Polly the parrot and it's implied that he witness-coached a parrot. Manfred, you are an insane person.

Idea for a story

I just want to see a story where Manfred is force-fed a redemption arc. Like for example a no DL-6 AU where Gregory manages to get a Manfred properly investigated for forging evidence. But to ensure he doesn't get another penalty, Manfred tries to frame another prosecutor to throw Gregory off his trail.

Only, Manfred finds out that the person he is framing is actually guilty of forging evidence. Manfred has to follow through with his plan and gets dragged into working with Gregory. Gregory is surprised but grateful that Manfred has been so helpful in weeding out corruption in the prosecutor's office, and wants to befriend/ally with Manfred. Manfred is seething with hatred. (Oh and eventual Shingou :)

Unpopular opinion

Manfred as a character deserves a lot more nuance. There's... a lot to talk about but these are the three main things I have a strong opinion on:

1) He was a flawed parent and I think it's more interesting to explore those flaws than to just label him abusive for the sake of villainizing him.

2) It does not makes sense for Manfred to be sexist/homophobic/etc. Simply because I don't think he cares enough to hate a group of people like that. He is very rational, efficient, and his perfectionism is focused on his prosecuting career. If anything, he discriminates against defense attorneys (lmao).

3) Manfred didn't brainwash or force Miles into becoming a prosecutor. I'm sure Manfred was influential but Miles had his own reason to be a prosecutor that stemmed from DL-6. Miles was also always a perfectionist (the paper cranes thing) and the von Karma family brand of perfectionism just amplified it.

Favorite relationship

Shingou!! <3 (Gregory Edgeworth/Manfred von Karma)

Defense attorney/prosecutor ship, toxic enemies to lovers, doomed romance, or super slowburn (if no DL-6 AU), bitter courtroom rivals turned bickering old married couple (who still duke it out in court), co-parenting Miles and Franziska (before officially getting together).

Favorite headcanon

Manfred did love Franziska and Miles (in his own way). Regarding Miles, Manfred saw him as a symbol of his failures (the penalty Gregory gave him and the shot in his shoulder). So Manfred struggled a lot when he began to actually care about Miles. When Miles's perfect record was broken, Manfred saw it as a threat to his own perfection. (I hope that makes sense. I do need to think about this more to solidify the headcanon. I just love complicated von Karma family dynamics)

Honestly, to me Manfred seems like he would be too rational to spend time on hating a group of people like that. He's extremely obsessed with "perfection" and looking back on Turnabout Goodbyes, he's also ruthlessly efficient. He prides himself on finishing trials in mere minutes and when Phoenix exposes his crime, all he does it tell the judge to hurry up with putting him away. He only acts irrationally when his "perfection" is threatened, namely when he shot Gregory over a penalty. And he puts a lot of effort into regaining his composure (taking the only vacation of his career after his crime). And adding all that on top of everything OP said about him raising Franziska... Manfred being misogynistic just doesn't seem very consistent with canon.

It's really easy to hate Manfred if you love Miles or Franziska and there is nothing wrong with interpretations, but I would recommend taking a good look at the evidence in canon.

Kinda scared to post this, but this has been on my chest for years and I finally have a platform to air it out. I don’t understand people who think that manfred is misogynistic. I know it’s like the cool thing to do in the aa fandom to hate manfred for fanon reasons, but I think manfred being misogynistic is one of the most unrealistic ones for me. Especially since Franziska turning out to be, well, Franziska, indicates otherwise. Like, Franziska is a loud, outspoken, confident, man-hating lesbian with anger issues that scares tf out of people. Basically everything that men hate. If manfred was misogynistic he would’ve snuffed that out as soon as he could. But he doesn’t. Bc he lives for that shit. I highly doubt he would try to constantly bring her down bc she’s a woman and “manfred wanted a male heir” (a fanon idea I also don’t understand since the competition that she and miles had together was started between them, and not directly initiated by manfred at all). Franziska being the way the she is literally can’t be more fitting of Manfred’s ideal of a von karma.

I just think it’s funny that manfred raised an angry lesbian daughter, is supposedly a wife guy (aai2), and overall has never said anything directly misogynistic in the games and the aa fandom chose him to be the misogynist of all people just bc he’s a villain. Really feels like the only reason people do that is bc they hate him so much they pile quite literally every horrible human trait they can think of onto him, and not bc it’s actually justified based on his character….