After I Read The Scene Where Laurie Recognises A Bit Of Andrew In An Old Photograph Of Ralph, I Went

The Blessed Damozel, 1878, Dante Gabriel Rossetti

Medium: oil,canvas

Ophelia, 1910, John William Waterhouse

Medium: oil,canvas

TC tag game Thank you for the questions and for tagging me @renaultphile Rules: Answer the questions and tag other TC fans

"He would not fucking say that" only they did and it's canon. When/who?

I don’t think I’ve read it enough to have a sense of something like this. I really disliked Laurie’s scenes with Adrian though. So it’s not so much ‘he wouldn’t say that’ as ‘I would prefer to ignore the fact that he said/did that.'

2. Did they kiss in the study? Yes/no + why you are 100% correct about this.

I think they did. The first time I read it, I didn't really wonder if something had happened, only what had happened: I didn’t know if they’d only kissed or done anything more. Later, it seemed to be confirmed by Ralph’s letter that they’d not done ‘anything more,’ I just assumed it was a kiss, and I don’t really think the dialogue following the ellipses makes much sense without anything having happened. “Now you see what I mean, Spud. It would never have done, would it? Well, goodbye.” What could Laurie have seen if there was nothing besides a hug or handshake or something? What would never have done? Why ask him to ‘come here’ at all?

3. Mandatory question about Ralph's alleged tattoos.

I really don’t think he’d have any, but if he did I think it'd probably be something nautical.

4. 53 vs 59 edition: quote a line or paragraph that is better in the edition you like the least.

I don’t know which of them I read and I definitely haven’t read another addition, so I can’t answer this. Apparently, the earlier one had more detail and dialogue, so if I haven’t I’d love to read it

5. Which TC character would feel right at home here on tumblr dot com?

Sandy, I think he'd be great on here.

6. Tag yourself at Alec's birthday party.

Laurie reading a book or Laurie just at the beginning, sitting around awkwardly, listening to people’s conversations and wondering how on earth he ended up there.

7. Post a TC meme

The first I ever saw (on the Mary Renault tag) and still the funniest to me, I think because I understand it perfectly

8. Easy to talk about who deserved better. Who deserved worse?

Straike, I hate him with a fiery passion. The man had a dog put down, not because he was sick or anything but simply because he couldn’t be bothered to care for him. Vicar? Ridiculous.

9. You can break the fourth wall (at any point in the novel) and say a single sentence to our protagonist, Laurie Odell. What do you say?

'This is not Ancient Greece, stop being weird,' at the exact moment Andrew is telling him his traumatic life-story and Laurie is preoccupied worrying about Dave. Also related to the question, but not really asked for: if I could I’d also tell Andrew he doesn’t have to feel ashamed of how he feels about Laurie. Well, more accurately, I’d give him a modern copy of ‘Quaker Faith & Practice’ and have the relevant passages highlighted, so I know he won’t miss them. It makes me very sad for both Andrew and Dave that their whole lives could've been very different (and much happier) if they were born four or five generations later.

9. What's a question you have about TC? One you haven't found an answer for yet.

I can't think of any, besides wondering how Mary Renault could've written it because it's so good. I love the use of subtext, the way she describes emotions you've felt before but never would've been able to put into words on your own. In terms of characters and story, I do have a random question about Bunny: was it supposed to be implied that he was a perpetrator of sexual assault? I got that idea when I was reading the car scene between him and Laurie but I was unsure.

I don't know who to tag! I think all of the Charioteer accounts I know have already been tagged, but if anyone hasn't and wants to, I'd love to read your response!

Hello! OK this is more an ask about a question, but you know you on the tag game when you mentioned Bunny and what happened in the car, you made me think. I'm not sure if there was actual contact, I tended to think of it as Bunny 'trying it on', but when I re-read it, it's clear Laurie is genuinely scared, and perhaps he suddenly realises he has no real idea who this guy is but he's also trying to make light of it. And then the little internal monologue is so pompous I find it hard to be sympathetic with him! But anyway, I wondered what you thought about it?

Hey! Thanks for this ask! I was debating making a post where I talked about it because it really confused me but you beat me to it with this question! When I went back to reread that scene, I didn’t expect to be so confused. I definitely agree that Laurie’s got some huge pompous lines in this one, but that wasn’t really the part that captured my attention or confused me. I was expecting the lines because I remembered reading them the first time. What I didn’t remember was getting the sense that Bunny was a real threat to Laurie. I think this is because I didn't realise how impossible the situation was?

The part that really made me think twice about Bunny and the car scene was this:

“Something primitive stirred in Laurie, as in a solitary man beset by the creatures of a swamp or forest “Oh, no,” he said. “I shouldn’t take that tone, if I were you.” This, thought Laurie, is what he doesn’t tell everyone. The practiced inflection had held many chapters of inadvertent autobiography. “You know,” he said, “Ralph’s going to wake up before long and ring the hospital to see I got back all right. If I haven’t, what do you expect me to do tomorrow? Back up your story?””

The line that caught my eye here was 'The practiced inflection had held many chapters of inadvertent autobiography.' I don't know why it did, but based on the situation as a whole, it kind of seemed to imply to me that Bunny was someone who coerced others?

So, if you think about it: here we have Bunny who puts Laurie in an impossible situation. Laurie is physically disabled, and needs to be conveyed to the hospital. They're out in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere when Bunny makes advances and is rebuffed. Angry at this, he tries to throw Laurie out of the car. Again, they're in the middle of nowhere, in the dark, and Laurie cannot walk. At this point in the story, he can barely be on his leg for an hour or two (at most) without his pain flaring up. So, there is no way Laurie can leave that car and get to the hospital safely. Only Bunny can get him there; he is entirely dependent on him. This is the situation he finds himself in. Bunny knows this, and after Laurie refuses to leave, responds saying: "I shouldn't take that tone, if I were you.' These words make clear that he knows Laurie is at his mercy, and is also warning him to be more agreeable. And it's not even just the words apparently, because Laurie says: "The practiced inflection had held many chapters of inadvertent autobiography." In other words, this tone of warning is itself practiced and reveals something about the one using it; based on everything above, I assumed it revealed that Bunny had done this all before, i.e. put others—who may not have had a Ralph to threaten him with—in similar impossible situations where the only way out would be responding favourably to his sexual advances.

I don't know if I'm reaching or reading too much into it, but this was what I got when I read it. I hope this made at least some sense. What do you think? And of course, thank you for the ask!

I wondered about the cancelled party thing too! I thought it was plausible at least because Bunny does say something about Ralph keeping Laurie a little hidden and (I think, I don't really remember) seems annoyed by this. It's not a stretch to think he'd lie about being out for the night, only to show up when he knows Laurie is there.

That said, Laurie also thinks later that Bunny isn't so much a planner as he is someone who just takes chances when they come to him. Alec hints at this too. So, I don't really know if I'm right: the level of foresight/planning that my idea of Bunny would suggest doesn't line up with the common perception of him given by at least 2 characters...honestly, Bunny (and his relationship with Ralph) always seemed odd to me. I was half-convinced the first time I read the book that Laurie was simply misjudging the situation and they weren't as serious as he imagined. I mean, Ralph never shows any real affection for Bunny in any of their scenes together! And Bunny is very weird! Their whole relationship was so weird to me lol

That Bunny car scene

Hi there @telltaleangelina I just wanted to think a bit more about the scene with Bunny and Laurie in the car scene on the back of your ask/answer.

I think you really got to the heart of it with that line ‘the practiced inflection’.  Laurie uses his intuition a lot (sometimes without even being sure what he is picking up) and it’s just such a creepy line, indicating how Bunny seamlessly adopts that tone.  Although I suppose there is an analogue with Ralph giving Bunny ‘the straight look’ for the first time back at the flat.

It suddenly occurred to me that cars are so symbolic of male power at that time, and it evokes that horrible trope of men taking women out and expecting some kind of ‘payment’.  I wonder if Bunny is just so cynical that he assumes Laurie is paying Ralph back in kind for the lift, and decides he wants a piece of the action.  Or he thinks Ralph is being ridiculously gentlemanly about Laurie and wants to bring him down to his level.

I realised the scene provides a contrast to the earlier car scene with Ralph.  I know we love the little knee touch in the 1953 version when they are parked up at the scenic spot, but to me, she took that out for a reason in the 1959.  It shows the high level of tension (not just sexual!) between them and the way both of them are being hyper-vigilant – Ralph trying very hard to judge the moment with Laurie, and Laurie trying very hard to be respectful of the fact that Ralph has a boyfriend.  And also, Laurie sits in silence to avoid attracting Ralph’s anger when he hits the traffic.  And he is so uncomfortable with being dependent on Ralph – the number of times he tries to leave the party to get the bus, and he tries it again at Bunny’s.

I also realised that it almost doesn’t matter whether Bunny would have followed through with his threat or not.  It just conjures up the horrible thought that he is used to getting what he wants, and most of the time, people don’t stand up to him.  So perhaps this is a neat way to show Laurie’s strength of character in a crisis.

The other thing that is quite disturbing, if not surprising, though, is that Laurie then plays it down with Ralph.  Partly because he fears not being believed (a bit like Alec silently taking the blame for Bunny’s gossip for a quiet life), and partly to spare Ralph’s feelings.  I realised he would be very influenced as well by the ‘no snitch’ rule in school, where telling on another boy would be considered worse than the original offence.  But it is cowardly too.  I wonder if his anger on the staircase is partly fueled by his frustration at being put in that situation, the suggestion that Ralph is so inured to that kind of behaviour that he doesn’t even notice any more.  And in a way Ralph is responsible, because even if Bunny spiked his drink, he still chose alcohol over tea.  But Laurie is also too passive.  In the end Ralph ends it with Bunny without knowing for sure what he did.  Unless he knows because Bunny has form.  In which case why is he with someone like that?  Either way, Laurie’s horrible accusations on the staircase have the ring of truth.

And finally I can’t go without mentioning that other linked car scene – Ralph kissing Laurie on the first night at the party (very heavy hint anyway) when he is dreaming about his mother kissing him!!  And Ralph sitting there having a cigarette while he waits for Laurie to wake up is so sweet.

‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭

Again, I observed all the oppression that takes place under the sun. I saw the tears of the oppressed, with no one to comfort them. The oppressors have great power, and their victims are helpless. So I concluded that the dead are better off than the living. But most fortunate of all are those who are not yet born. For they have not seen all the evil that is done under the sun.

I hope Harry and Meghan name their daughter Diana so I can watch the monarchy collapse in real time.

April

by Mary Oliver

I wanted to speak at length about the happiness of my body and the delight of my mind for it was April, a night, a full moon and --

but something in myself or maybe from somewhere other said: not too many words, please, in the muddy shallows the

Frogs are singing.

I just heard my mom tell my brother, “when you die, you will go outside and garden until your father says you’re done” and it took me a second to realize that my brother was playing a videogame and this was not a theological discussion.