Y'know, It's So Funny To Me When People Make Out Like Tim Drake Would Keep Files On How To Take Down

Y'know, it's so funny to me when people make out like Tim Drake would keep files on how to take down his friends when Tim has explicitly said he disagrees with Batman on this:

A panel from YJ98 #36. Robin is addressing the YJ team on Apokolips World.

Robin: People... you think you know how I feel about Batman? Trust me: right now, you don't. No, I don't have files on you. Batman and I are different, believe it or not. I have friends. He has... associates. That's becoming more and more clear to me... And that's all I intend to say on the subject.

[Young Justice (1998) #36]

Like, yes, during his Red Robin tenure he does make a Hit List full of contingency plans for known heroes. But if you go and read that, you'll notice that, while the Justice League and Damian may be on there, Tim's own friends are decidedly absent:

A panel from RR09 #14, depicting a computer monitor with some of the heroes on Tim Drake's hit list. Heroes shown include: Superman, Supergirl, Hawkman, Geo-force, Green Arrow, Arsenal, Robin (Damian Wayne), Green Lantern (Guy Gardner), Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Magog, the Atom, Azrael, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel/Shazam, Mary Marvel, and Red Tornado.

[Red Robin (2009) #14]

In fact, a lot of these heroes are people that have either (a) attacked Tim specifically, (b) have a track record that includes turning evil/getting mind controlled, or (c) are on the JLA (meaning Batman probably already had those files compiled and Tim just stole them).

So yeah: Tim's not down with contingency-planning for his friends. You know which one of the YJ crew DID agree with Batman though? My favorite blorbina Anita Fite, aka Empress:

A panel from YJ98 #36.
Secret: Well, I trust Robin IMPLICITLY! I don't care what any of you say!
Anita Fite/Empress: Y'know, I gotta say... if a member of the JLA *had* gone crazy, or been taken over by outside forces... and don't say it could never happen because we know it could... If it *had* happened, everyone would've been *thanking* Batman for his foresight. Not condemning him... and, by extension, Robin.

[Young Justice (1998) #36]

But yeah, this contrast is honestly fascinating to me. Because while both Anita and Tim have been shown to be incredibly loyal individuals, this exchange really highlights the fact that, between the two of them, Anita is far more likely to engage in this kind of pragmatism when she thinks it's necessary to get the job done

The whole Our Worlds at War arc actually does a really good job of illustrating how both of them react to betrayal from within. It's not just the Batman Files conflict either -- I'm thinking specifically about the hallucination-based torture Granny Goodness put them through, which showed them their worst fears. Most of the team ended up having to watch their loved ones die, but what's super interesting to me is that we really only see Anita and Tim hallucinate that their loved ones blame them for their deaths:

A panel from YJ98 #37. Robin watches in horror as Superboy is dragged away, in chains, by Parademons.
Superboy: It's all your fault! You should have saved her!! You think we keep you around for your "powers"? You're an athletic teenager! Big flippin' deal! Your brain's the only thing worth a darn! And you couldn't think of a thing to do to save her, you--
A panel from YJ98 #37. Anita Fite/Empress is restrained by Parademons as her father is burned at the stake.
Anita: Daddy!!! DADDDYYYY!!
Don Fite: This is YOUR fault, Anita! All your fault! Because of you and your stunts and stupidity, I'm going to die just like your mother did! You're a jinx! A curse! An albatross around my neck!

[Young Justice (1998) #37]

Like. It's not the same as a teammate turning evil at all. But it does give us a good idea of how they'd both react when faced with a friend or teammate doing harmful things, albeit on a smaller scale. Because where Tim kind of just accepts Superboy yelling at him and moves straight into bargaining for Kon's life, Anita actually flips the script, gets angry, and defends herself against her father:

A panel from YJ98 #37. 
Anita, angry: You... you creep! How could you... SAY things like that?! I'll show you! I'm going to come out there and RAM those words down your THROAT!
[She disappears in a puff of smoke]

[Young Justice (1998) #37]

(she actually gets so righteously pissed off that she manages to break out of the VR simulation Granny Goodness had her trapped in, but that's another point)

But yeah, it's super interesting, because by this point, both Anita and Tim have been set up to be very similar characters. They both can be a little bit obsessive, they both have some issues with boundaries and stalking (Tim with Nightwing and Batman, Anita with Cissie), and of the team, they're both portrayed as the "normal" members (Anita does technically have mind control powers but she barely ever uses them, and in a fight, she's basically just a very good, human-level fighter)

But at the end of the day, though Batman forces Robin to put on a cool front of objectivity, Tim (at least in his pre-grief-spiral era) ultimately wants to see the best in his team. When the people he cares about screw up, he wants to give them second chances. And when that trust gets broken, his first instinct is to try to use diplomacy, or, failing that, simply remove himself from the situation (as we see at the end of the Our Worlds at War arc when he quits the team)

Anita, on the other hand, while still incredibly loyal, does not hand out that loyalty unconditionally. We see this when she tries to keep her identity secret from the YJ squad, we see it when she gets pissed in Granny Goodness's hallucination when her father blames her for her mother's death, and we see it when she later blames Secret for her perceived role in Anita's father's death

Anita also happens to sit right smack dab in the middle of the YJ morality scale; while she's generally pretty chill and willing to abide by typical superhero codes of ethics (unlike Slobo and Secret), she's also been shown to bend those rules when she believes it's necessary (as seen here when she tortures and threatens to kill a man for trying to hurt Cissie). Ultimately, what this means is, between Tim and Anita, it's honestly Anita who'd probably be the most willing to put her personal qualms aside, buckle down, and go against her loved ones if it was the only reasonable option

Anyway. This is a really long-winded way of saying I think Gun Batman's biggest nemesis should be Empress

More Posts from Panfriedgarlicbread and Others

9 months ago

I need sleep now but once I wake I simply must once again slip into gibbering madness about Brothers in Blood (my Beloved)


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5 months ago

my esteemed rival,


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6 months ago

Horses are really fragile animals. Is it still a death sentence for a centaur if one of their equine limbs gets hurt? Or can they help it somehow?

Oh god, now I'm thinking of amputees and how those would work

Horses are SUPER fragile, or maybe more like delicately balanced.. but particularly their crazy spindle-legs which centaurs get to deal with! But a big part of why hurt legs are a death sentence for horses has less to do with “It kills them” and more to do with quality of life, which a centaur can get around! A horse with a broken leg doesn’t understand it can’t put ANY weight on that leg for an extended period and will attempt to go about their daily life and act normally, which basically guarantees re-injuring the bad leg and a high chance of injuring the other 3 legs as they try to cope with the change in balance and weight distribution. It all leads to a really poor quality of life with almost no chance of truly healing properly. The story of all they did trying to save Barbaro the racehorse is a long sad story that illustrates a lot of the issues even with modern veterinary medicine with trying to deal with a broken leg in horses.

Thankfully with centaurs, They understand the need for healing, are able to manage their own quality of life and have the gear to support themselves in the time it takes for the injury to heal!

Horses Are Really Fragile Animals. Is It Still A Death Sentence For A Centaur If One Of Their Equine

Also perfectly good for long term use in the case of aging, amputation, or general disability! Which is common with the front legs and lower backs of centaurs given the unusual stresses caused by their body-plans. They were created with thicker and more robust front legs to cope with the permanent added weight of the torso instead of a horse head, but injury and disability in that area is still very common!

Horses Are Really Fragile Animals. Is It Still A Death Sentence For A Centaur If One Of Their Equine

Injuries to the hind are less common and usually less severe, and given the hind legs bear less direct weight than the front they can usually get away with wraps and limping until it gets back to weight-bearing. Something like a rear amputation or ruptured tendon would probably require a custom harness/brace attached to a wheel like these and/or basically a peg leg!


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9 months ago

Bat Family AU wherein only Barbara and Tim know Huntress' true identity. So when Tim needs a fake relative after Jack's murder, instead of hiring a complete stranger to pose as his uncle, he hires Helena to be his fake aunt.

As a teacher, she is against him dropping out of school but she knows him and listens to him, so she realizes how hard the last few years have been on him, especially with how often he had to change schools. They compromise, with her signing him up in a homeschooling academy. He does a lot better and even starts taking AP classes in several subjects since his training has caused him to advance in them. Not having to get up early for school or hide so much from his teachers/classmates/parental figures(s) also takes a lot of pressure off of him.

Helena gains access to the Robin's Nest Tim builds in or near their building. She also upgrades her suit and staff using some of the materials and specs from his suit and gear. They both are very good at recognizing when the other is getting close to someone who isn't good for them, or pushing themselves too hard, and they intervene.

When Barbara eventually learns that Helena is posing as Tim's aunt (probably because Helena told her) she's like "Okay, I expect this kind of thing from Tim, but why would you agree to this?!"

Helena points out that she needed to find a way to supplement her teacher's salary if she was going into keep up the vigilante gig anyway; Robin's new computer set up rivals Oracle's; and this way she can make sure the bambino does his homework and gets enough sleep.

Barbara realizes that both Robin and Huntress have been on top of their game lately.

Once she calms down from realizing that Tim just needed a decent parental figure all this time, she and Helena start trading notes and working together to keep Tim and Cassandra from turning out like Bruce, Dick, or Jason.

Whenever they learn about this, Bruce and Dick will be insulted. Jason and Alfred will add their own notes to help.

When Tim's report card comes back with straight A's and Cass has learned to read all the street signs, Helena and Barbara take them out for pizza and gelato to celebrate.

Occasionally, Tim reminds Helena that she's just supposed to pretend to be his aunt. She ignores this and reminds him to do his schoolwork and eat something before patroling.

It works.


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7 months ago

End of UtH fix-it where the bomb at the warehouse teleports Jason into the Adam West Batman show from the 60's. Jason's bleeding out when Robin finds him and fixes him with anti-hemorraghia spray and therapeutical fluting, and the general state of this universe is so absurd that it shocks him straight out of his episode. In the end they offer to adopt him and he decides he likes it better there and stays forever the one straight man in that universe, who comes to solve a situation with a really judgemental face like "you guys got tangled into a human knot of death? Again?". He also keeps shooting at people but it's fine because if he tells Bruce it was a "special technology fake death bullet" to trick the villains into surrendering Bruce just goes "okay makes sense" and doesn't investigate further.


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7 months ago

Jaykyle enemies to lovers misunderstanding AU where they hatefuck once during Countdown to Final Crisis and part ways. Jason becomes Star Sapphire from a different mechanism than usual just because he's so powered by love, and forgets to mention it to just about everyone but Carol. Cue a very confused Kyle being accosted by a bunch of curious/angry bats and/or outlaws who think the reason why Jason's struggling with his power (his magic keeps exploding in his face) is because Kyle broke his heart. (It's not, Jason just needs to learn about self-love). Upon learning that, Kyle goes through three different crises in ten minutes and decides that while he still doesn't like Jason he has to "take responsibility" and "make this right" because he thinks Jason loved him and was being defensive of Kyle's hostility and he used and ditched him, so he decides to help Jason with his powers and resolve the situation. Eventually this is what they needed to give eachother a chance and they fall in love, but god does Jason laughs his ass off when he finally learns about the misunderstanding.


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9 months ago
Three panels from YJ98 #50.

Robin: What's up, Wonder Girl?
Wonder Girl: I just... I wanted to make sure we're okay. You and me.
Robin: Because you're in charge and I'm not?
Cassie: Well... yeah. It's just that I respect you so much, and I was a latecomer to the team, and I--
Robin (puts his hands on her shoulders): Cass... You earned it. Knock 'em dead.
Wonder Girl: Really?
Robin: Yeah.
Wonder Girl: Do leaders hug?
[they hug]
Robin: They've been known to. Just not in front of the troops.

Their friendship is legitimately everything to me


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6 months ago

i feel like playing kon-el-themed eleven truths and a lie again!!!


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9 months ago

time travel fanfic idea where Jason comes back to before he was adopted, him and Batman still meet and he still ends up being adopted by Bruce Wayne, but he just refuses to acknowledge Batman and Robin, he acts like a civilian boy, he has over thirteen extracurriculars that Bruce does his best to keep up with. He regularly works out and trains all the fighting he's learned over the years, he goes on a gap year before college to recuperate the all blades and pretends to be the civilian in a family of crime fighting vigilantes.

He's doing pre-med and keeps nagging his siblings to go to college too (Cass, Tim), Duke is the one who spends more time with him bc everyone else is nocturnal and sleep through the day, but Jason likes to drive Duke to his classes and pick him up so they can have lunch together, Damian had a hard time at first, because Jason speaks every language that he speaks and all bat related things have to stay at the cave, his league training didn't prepare him for a civilian brother.

During an attempted kidnapping during one of the Wayne galas, Jason's whole plan almost gets blow up because one of the guys has taken a woman hostage and his Red Hood fried brain just pounced on the dude with all his might, wrestled him for the gun and kept him stuck under his boot with the gun pointed between the guys brows.

He had to pretend to be scared when Batman came to the rescue and act like he didn't know how to handle a gun.

+ Alfred 100% thinks Jason was on a children gang and that's why he's so good with knives, guns and rifles, but who's he to say anything about people's past


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9 months ago

"Lex Luthor's latest character flaw" poll winner, "deciding he wants grandbabies and giving Robin a cloning lab about it". Behold, a new WIP strikes!!

“What,” Tim says, staring blankly at the brightly-lit and airy sunroom full of very obvious cloning technology in the very expensive penthouse that Lex Luthor’s bodyguards just dragged a handcuffed Red Robin and Spoiler into after kidnapping them straight off patrol in the Diamond District in the middle of an active crisis situation with the League of Assassins and disabling all their tech and every single one of their trackers six and a half hours ago, down to the bastardized Kryptonian-tech ones in their back molars and two more in both of their suits that Tim didn’t even know existed, plus the one he put in Steph’s collar that she didn’t know existed. Babs is probably just about feral by now. Bruce is definitely feral by now. 

And Lex Luthor is drinking what appears to be a neon purple protein shake out of a rocks glass while sitting at a neatly-arranged desk in the center of the sunroom lab, looking idly bored and scrolling through whatever’s on his phone with his free hand. 

Alright then, Tim thinks carefully. 

“There you are, I was starting to wonder if I’d gotten al Ghul riled up for nothing,” Luthor says, barely glancing up from his tablet. 

“. . . which al Ghul,” Tim asks with wary dread. 

“All of them,” Luthor says, setting down his tablet to give him a pleasant smile. 

Well, now Tim knows why nobody’s dropped in a skylight to rescue them yet. And also why half of Gotham is currently on fire. 

“Uh,” Steph says, glancing around the sunroom lab. “So like, lead-lined glass in here, then, or . . . ?” 

“We’re in Connecticut, so no,” Luthor replies dismissively. “Anyway, the Boy Scout always gets suspicious of too much lead in one place. Which I personally find darling, since anyone in Metropolis without at least a lead-lined and soundproofed bedroom is essentially asking for Kryptonian voyeurs, whether intentionally or not on said Kryptonians’ parts. Also, privacy laws exist for a reason. As do patents, copyrights, attorney-client privilege, HIPAA . . .” 

“Connecticut?” Steph repeats incredulously. “What the frick is in Connecticut?” 

“Currently, us,” Luthor replies matter-of-factly. “Hope, Mercy, do me a favor and go check the security systems manually, just in case any invasive species of vermin have gotten into them. Also, yes, there is kryptonite, and no, there is actually much more than you’re theorizing.” 

“You have literally no idea how much kryptonite we’re theorizing,” Steph says as the bodyguards both leave with an affirming nod. Luthor gives her a pitying look, then turns his chair a few degrees towards Tim. Tim immediately expects the inevitable threat or ultimatum, and braces himself for–

“I’d apologize for all the fuss, but I don’t actually care about inconveniencing you and don’t see the point in pretending I ever would,” Luthor informs him. Tim stares blankly at him again. What is even happening right now? “Now then, what are your intentions in regards to ‘Supernova’, as I hear someone’s started calling himself now. ‘Themself’? I’m not sure if ‘Supernova’ is meant to be gender-affirming or more a ‘too old to stick with ‘Superboy’ but there are already three ‘Supermen’ active and the whole, you know, general stubborn individualism they’re so fond of. Or ‘he’s’ so fond of. Whichever."

Tim stares at him. 

“Is this supposed to be a trap for Supernova or a shovel talk for me?” he asks, because a) he’s not telling Lex Luthor anything about Kon’s gender or personal choices that Kon hasn’t publicly stated, and b) only Lex Luthor would actually kidnap two active vigilantes in the middle of a crisis he’d apparently pre-arranged to give a–well, no, Bruce would also do that, definitely. But this is not a Batman talk, either way. 

Batman’s “talks” all involve tests, for one thing, so actually so far this is an improvement. 

“It’s an engagement present,” Luthor says pleasantly. 

Tim’s brain crashes, then does the slowest reboot of his life. He’s recovered from concussions faster, he’s pretty sure. 

“They’re . . . not engaged, though?” Steph says skeptically. “Or, like, even dating?” 

“Red Robin’s commitment issues are his own problem, not mine. I’ve got a schedule to keep,” Luthor replies dismissively.


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