Does Anyone Wish We Could Talk About The Real Impacts Of Transandrophobia And Anti-transmasculinity Without

I hope it's okay for me to send this ask-

I just kinda generally wanted to talk about how I ended up kinda coming to terms with exclusionists existing, and yet managing to just pay them no mind. The first time I met an exclusionist was, surprisingly enough, in real life. This one was all about denying the need for the pansexual label, as well as a very strong hatred for ace people. I really don't wanna get in detail, but it was my first time meeting someone who had so much vitriol for other people within the community. It was a pretty important part of his personality, truthfully.

Then, over time, it kinda became obvious to me that he was kinda doing it as an attempt to... Redirect the attention elsewhere? He had done a lot of harm to other people, in ways that he couldn't really argue well about (not wanna get into detail, but there was some grooming involved). Part of how he tried to cover that up was just to find another topic to be loud about, rallying people together in a specific type of hatred and becoming a big name within the community through his stupid little war against ace and pan people. When you tried to kinda bring up that he had done some really bad stuff that he wasn't even sorry about, he'd just claim you were trying to undermine his point.

Thankfully, over time, people did end up realizing he was pretty abusive, and neither ace nor pan exclusionism stuck around much within the community, and he eventually lost his power and voice. And it kinda gave me the perspective that, well. Of course not all exclusionists (of any kind- let it be against ace folk, transmasc folk, etc) are necessarily doing it as a redirection thing, but a lot of them are. You can quite literally prove some of the current transmasc hating people on this site having called for the death of minorities or having sent death threats to other folk, but if you do bring it up, they will often just try to redirect any accusation with "you are doing this because you [hate this group]" or "you are doing this because you're against [this one specific ideology]"

All in all, people who spend most of their time obsessively hating some other people who don't pose any major danger to them tend to just not be worth the time. Seeing exclusionist movements come and go, seeing the people leading them lose their relevancy once people come up to terms with the exclusionism being stupid, it's all reassuring. This will also pass. I hope that the few loud voices that wanna open massive divides between trans folk will, sooner than later, fall into the same irrelevancy than those that came before them have fallen into.

this is reassuring, thank you for this ask anon

oh no, I'm in the furry community. I know exactly how people react they find out.

I'd actually argue that furries are usually way worse, in terms of trying to justify it.

Here we have, yet another intersexism train wreck involving a gimmick blog!

Our saga starts here. This original ask was tagged with "#intersex appreciation" for context.

Next we have, how not to respond to being corrected on your intersexism!

Imagine if someone used literally any other queerphobic slur & stereotyped a group of queer people. Now imagine someone took the time to clarify why this is bad and that alternative words exist - and then their response was "ok whatever block me".

You'd be dragged and publicly derided as a queerphobic bigot if this was about any other group in the queer community. But not when it's intersex people. We are considered an acceptable target, and our voices are seen as "tumblr level reading comprehension", and people love to "correct" others using more slurs.

You are right, official-penis-posts, that is another slur. And how did you respond?

Not well. To say the least. "Because everything's a slur" you sound like an anti-woke podcast guy.

"I live in the real world"? Seriously? I do too, @official-penis-posts, and my real world involves being called a fucking hermaphrodite in an urgent care by an actual medical professional who very rudely questioned why my genitals were weren't (typo) "corrected" (mutilated) when I was a child. It involves people calling me a futanari in high school. It involves people being disgusted at what "a real hermaphrodite's" genitals look like when I decide share that as a sexually active adult.

And for the record the anon correction is wrong here too, hermaphrodite is a slur in every context and has referred to intersex human beings long before it was ever used for cosexual animals. Stop saying fucking slurs.

Hello person who runs the penis gimmick blog, as an intersex person who used to follow you and thinks dick jokes are funny; I'd like you to apologize for your intersexism and the way you responded to intersex people correcting you. Intersexism is an incredibly widespread form of bigotry, most people have intersexist ideas and worldviews unless it is corrected. What I dislike is the way you have dismissed intersex people's concerns as overdramatic whiney nonsense and chose to just delete your posts to save face instead of apologizing.

It is so annoying when people respond to "the queer community has an anti-masc problem" with "well society loves and praises masculinity!" Okay... yes... but that's not what we're talking about 😭 The queer community ≠ society as a whole. Also? The society that praises masculinity does NOT praise queer masculinity. Cishet society does not praise butches, masculine trans people, or anyone who is masc in a queer way. And unfortunately, many queer people have this same problem.

"Trans men aren't targeted by anti trans rhetoric and law."

Trumps executive order to ban gender affirming care mainly fearmongers about trans boys not being able to give birth or breast feed and calls transitional surgery "female genital mutilation".

When we say we are invisible, it's not that we are invisible to the people who hate us. It's that our struggles are invisible to the people who should be advocating for us.

Lying about who invented forcefem and forcemasc being a copy of it is one of the weirder manifestations of the weird aggressive radfem claim to everything under the sun but far from the only one.

Trying to trademark "eggs" for transfems is a fundamental refusal by radfems to see anyone else as trans. Even assuming it's true that it started specifically with trans women and it was ever exclusive for more than five seconds after it's creation, which would like to see some evidence for but am not holding out much hope considering it definitely fucking wasn't, it's completely absurd to act like the basic concept of a name for a concept like that should be exclusive to begin with. The only justification for it is that you don't think other trans people have any kinna journey like that to go through in the first place. What the hell else are they supposed to call it? Literally, what combination of words other than "egg" is a good metaphor for that situation?

And the answer to this conundrum is just that they don't want other trans people to have a word period. Radfems don't think other trans people are trans. Radfems do not believe it's possible to want to be a man or the desire to be a man to have any inherent worth, because dysphoria has fully taken control of their every waking thought and can only conceptualize trans people AFAB as bitches who are making fun of them by pretending to want to be something they desperately want to escape from and project their fear they're not a Trve Wymyn on to everyone else so they can reinforce their own shaky faith in their gender identity. You wouldn't see radfems saying things like "those AFAB cunts are evil for saying all the time that binary trans women have boring genders [fabrication] but actually we know more than anyone about gender because of transmisogyny" if they were not dealing with a psychological wound that's bleeding all over every post they make.

And, of course, radfems count any trans person AMAB as "TMA," which is essentially a way of labeling them Trans Women With Extra Steps. Have you seen a non-binary tee-em-ay that did not also identify as woman? Because I sure haven't! They surely exist, somewhere, but every one I've seen is also fem, and there's nothing wrong with that nor does it make them less non-binary, but it's very telling about TMA/TME culture and it's views on transfemininity, and what trans people AMAB who aren't also fem tend to think of that whole framework.

Isn't it such a strange coincidence that most of it tends to be super broad concepts that are in no way exclusive, in terms of material reality, to trans women, like "person who doesn't know they're trans yet"? If they ever were transfem exclusive, you'd get the idea that they were designed purely to bait people into picking it up just to yell at them for it, but what's actually happening is going after abso-fucking-lutely everything to tear people's language away as a power trip and feel like the most special queers to ever live.

But let's look at something less essential than terminology. Let's take the shark plushie. That, for one thing, has just provably never been transfem specific. Ever. Not once time in history, any claim otherwise is a deliberate lie. But even if it WERE, why? Why do you NEED it to be transfem specific? What about the shark plushie makes it transfem culture? What does that even MEAN? How do you signal a shark plushie is transfem culture? What exactly is happening when you see a trans man saying he put top surgery scars on his shark plushie? Can you explain to me why that's like watching your partner cheating on you? Besides that, do you understand this is a toy for toddlers that was never deliberately aimed at anyone queer? I genuinely so badly want to ask these extremely stupid people if in twenty years they'll scream at the hundreds of thousands of cis people who had one when they were four and were fond of it.

Like, it's wild, right? Because radfems will say on a regular basis "oh, they took the shark plushie, they took catgirls, they took forcefem, they took uhhhh flips to a random page of a book on a compilation of queer shitposts pumpkin fucking." And then, in their next breath, they'll go on about how transmascs make nothing but inferior degenerate art of no value.

They know we, trans women, have culture besides that shit, right? Drawn art? Film? Video games? Literature, too, even though every transfem book I've heard of sounds terrible, since I know that's only because I haven't ever looked for more. Like, I know good transfem books are OUT THERE if only people would discuss the ones that aren't about testosterone turning you into a feral monster or being gifted Trve Biological Wymynhood by the gods, as though that doesn't display some sickeningly bioessentialist transmed trends among the radfems on this website.

There is so much good transfem culture people could be uplifting instead! But instead they go with transradfem culture, which, let's be clear, is not representative of trans women or our actual, authentic cultural output, and is mostly bought off the shelf at Walmart.

Like, oh, wow, if trans radblr is supposed to be transfem culture then I guess transfem culture is a bunch of fucking shallow memes, kinks, and literal baby toys. Great cultural output, girls! Great going! Truly the ZENITH of human civilization! They'll put down transmasc music every other day but I'm pretty sure just about anyone with a pulse could fuck around with a middle school recorder for a few minutes that has more artistic value than the transradfem culture that radfems act like hyper-defensive weirdos about.

Which includes a bunch of slurs for others, which is funny, because on one hand you're like, hey, this word originated on 4chan, and they're like "no, trans women invented it," and you're like, yeah, those aren't mutually exclusive ideas, maybe rethink that line of defense Birdgirl because you're going to get your client in even worse trouble here. Maybe instead say that yes, it was invented by transphobes for transphobes, but you're choosing to appropriate this 4chan slur anyway because you're jealous some non-binary people were invited to a concert you wouldn't have gone to anyway. That'd be at least a little more honest than inventing this false history where it was created specifically because of the pain and trauma of some non-binary people being invited to a concert you wouldn't have gone to anyway. Or at least that I hope you wouldn't have gone to even if you had been extended an invite.

Like, instead of celebrating real transfem culture that does actually exist, radfems incapable of creating their own stuff just want to grab everything in sight and plant a transradfem flag on it, which makes the definition of transfemininity and transfem culture they want to push all the more grotesquely empty.

holy shit y’all should watch this one, what an admirable person

I fear some of you are not ready to hear this, but when someone from a hypovisible underprivileged queer group says 'oh hey, this also happens to me!' on a post about a hypervisible underprivileged queer group, this is not 'derailing' from the hypervisible group

this is a call for solidarity from people who are frequently forgotten in these conversations

hating on trans men is not the progressive move you think it is

Trans Men, the afterthought of the LGBT.

Think of the world "LGBT" in your mind. What flashes through? I see a quick rifling through four people like a slideshow... a chubby cis gay guy, a tall cis lesbian with killer eyeliner, a short cis girl with a kooky hairstyle, and a trans woman. What she looks like varies every time, but 90% of cases I think of a girl. Even as a trans man myself whose trans friends are like two-thirds trans men, the first thing I think of when I hear the word "trans" is usually a trans woman. When hear HRT? Estrogen. When hear SRS? Vaginoplasty.

And that's not a coincidence... because trans guys don't dominate any trans spaces unless it's specifically labelled an ftm-only space. I've seen trans women themselves point out that trans boy spaces are labelled as "ftm" while trans girl spaces are labelled "trans". No "fem" or "girl" or "woman" anywhere in the name - just "trans".

Think of trans rep on TV. Trans people are already incredibly underrepresented - but on the rare occasion we do get shown onscreen, it's always someone MTF. I could give a million examples - but there are already many people who've said the exact same thing and doing so at this point would be redundant.

Think of spaces that say "This is for females ONLY" (sometimes they say "women" but really mean "cis women"). Nobody ever thinks of the trans men who might find themselves in a position to need that resource (such as homeless shelters) who will invariably be denied because TERFs hate trans men too and despite whatever they claim, they do not actually see us as girls. The response to "female-only spaces" is "but what about trans women". Which is GOOD! It should keep being a response! It should keep raising questions! It should, however, not be the only question we're asking here!

Think of "women's health" issues. Even then, the conversation around inclusive language always revolves around "but some girls don't do that because they're trans" (which is a good thing on its own but it's not good as an exclusive variant) and not "but some people do that and aren't girls because they're trans". Even in conversations about uteruses and everything they revolve, it's always centred around "but not all women" instead of "not all are women".

Lastly, think of radical feminism. Think of so-called internet "misandrists". Think of how many times you've seen one, whether cis or trans, ever include the word "cis" in their classic "all men" posts. Never? Exactly. And when you call them out on it, their response is almost always some kind of variant of "well you know that's not what I meant". And it's true most times, they didn't mean it; they forgot it. Forgot about us. Like every single time, they forget we see these things and feel hurt. They forget we're there. To them, we might as well be a flower on the wall.

Anyway. Just wanted to type this out because it's been bouncing around my head for a while. Happy late trans visibility day. Not only this week but for the rest of your life I want you to listen to and amplify trans men's voices; they need it.

oh and also, trans women/fems should NOT be coining terms to describe the oppression that primarily trans men/mascs face. that is so incredibly fucking scummy on so many levels.

imagine i go "hm. actually, 'transmisogyny' is Bad and I Don't Like It so im going to decide on the word you should be using for yourselves because yall arent capable of meaningfully coming up with a word to describe your own oppression. i think 'transobjectification' is a better word for you all to use so stop using transmisogyny to describe your experiences now, thanks : ) "

that would be BEYOND disrespectful, it would be so extremely transmisogynistic of me to do that, so why is your coining of "transemasculation" not seen as RIGHTFULLY and DISGUSTINGLY transandrophobic.

AND THATS NOT EVEN MENTIONING HOW TRANS MEN/MASCS HAVE COINED SEVERAL TERMS TO TRY AND DISCUSS OUR OPPRESSION LIKE 'ISOMISOGYNY', 'TRANSMISANDRY', 'TRANSMASCPHOBIA', 'ANTI-TRANSMASCULINITY'. AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN MET WITH THE SAME FUCKING RESPONSE. AT SOME POINT YOURE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO COME OUT AND SAY THAT YOU JUST DONT WANT US TO SPEAK ABOUT OUR OWN OPPRESSION AT ALL AND QUIT PLAYING THESE SHITTY SEMANTICS GAMES.