Oh Yes, Silly Me - I Completely Forgot To Explore All The Options There 🙈 Thank You For This Addition!

Oh yes, silly me - I completely forgot to explore all the options there 🙈 Thank you for this addition! I do love their banter. And humor almost plays role of another love language between them sometimes.

He does approve if you say “Is that all you want? Shallow praise?” as well.

I agree that joking around like that shows that Tav treats him like everybody else, normally, like a friend. And that’s what matters.

I did notice a slight change in his expression today when mentioning sleep, somewhere else but I can’t remember where exactly. And that’s also what I thought - that he is not so fond of going to sleep and seeing dreams that might turn into nightmares.

Reflecting in Their Eyes

(5/? part of “Astarion: In Search of True Self” — [masterpost here])

The episode where Astarion is looking in the mirror, quietly questioning his appearance, is one of my absolute favorites.

Since he is a vampire, we know he doesn’t cast a reflection. So at first glance, it seems a little bit pointless… unless! He was trying to make Tav notice, to draw them into a conversation without saying it directly (and it worked!) - isn't it just a sweet way to set up a difficult conversation without being too obvious about it, but at the same time not hiding it too hard? One might say it is another manipulation, but I rather like such a subtle approach. On the other hand, you can see in the camp that Astarion always has a mirror in his tent, so maybe I’m wrong in my assumption.

When Tav asks if he misses seeing his face, Astarion reluctantly, with a snarky comment, admits he does and confesses that he hasn’t seen his reflection since the night he was turned. He doesn’t even remember much about how he looked before.

In my story, I chose an option where Tav takes a moment to quietly study him. When he asked, “What?” she simply said, “I can be your mirror. What do you want to see?” And Astarion answered with something I didn’t expect him to say out loud, yet somehow knew was coming:

“I want to know what the world sees when looks at me. What you see.”

(There’s a more intense version too, where Tav simply says “I see you.” And in that moment, he’s stretched taut like a string - waiting, terrified, hopeful.)

He is quiet at first, but breaks into a smile, realizing what they are doing, when Tav starts describing him - those strong, piercing eyes, they say. And when they get to that “dangerous smile,” he interrupts with a grin:

“Just say I’m beautiful and we can call it a day.”

It may seem like he is back to his usual flirty sass, but I believe he was just incredibly relieved and even flustered to hear that they don’t see him, a vampire spawn, as a monster, but still find him attractive and beautiful. So the shield is up again, back to the safer tone, when the moment is over and he has confirmed what he wanted to know - not to push Tav away, but falling back into familiar habits because opening up like that is so much.

Watch his body language: he turns away, putting some distance between them, as if to regulate the emotions stirred by the moment. He seems overwhelmed, uncertain what face he should make right now, but he is still listening, still thinking. People often look into the distance like that when they’re remembering something - like he does, still processing Tav's words.

But the important thing is: those words weren’t just about his physical appearance, but also his personality or, rather, his presence, because “strong piercing eyes” and “dangerous smile” speak more about the inner qualities rather than outer beauty.

And when Tav does say - “You are beautiful” - Astarion is clearly lifted and cheered, especially compared to the beginning of their conversation. I just love this episode, it is so sweet and touching!

For someone who carefully cultivates control over his appearance, who hides his uncertainty beneath vanity, it is a big deal to open up like that and admit he is actually unsure about his looks. And to someone he is starting to trust. And it’s not just about his looks. When he asks how Tav sees him, it’s also a quiet test: he realizes he is developing feelings for them (well, at least for me, this episode was right before his confession), and he finds a way to find out if his feelings might be returned. It’s a subtle way of asking, “Is it possible for you to see me behind this appearance?”

This is the first moment he let his guard down to show something fragile underneath. To see how they react when he is not playing the role. He showed us small glimpses before, but this is the first time Astarion lowered his defenses that low. And when Tav doesn't recoil, mock or dismiss him but stays warm and sincere, it reassures him that he is safe and seen with them. And he dares to tell them the truth - about his feelings and his "simple plan".

This moment is one of the most breathtaking parts of their journey together that yet again connects to our next realization - I want to talk about it in the next post.

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baldur's gate 3 bg3 astarion astarion x tav

Ascension or Not?

(12/? part of “Astarion: In Search of True Self” — [masterpost here])

Trigger warning: Spawn route / Ascension reflection

The Rite of Profane Ascension is the culmination of The Pale Elf’s story - everything has been building toward this: the fear, the shame, the survival instincts, the longing to be seen, the need to finally break free. It’s the most dangerous moment for Astarion - the fork in the road that will change everything.

We’ve already talked about how much Astarion longs to be truly seen. That’s why it hurts so deeply when he isn’t. When Tav misreads him - sees only the seducer, the witty, wicked vampire spawn - it encourages him to stay inside that mask. And he will, because that’s how he survived for two hundred years. But if Tav reaches gently toward what’s underneath, if they speak to the heart of him… he starts to hope: “Could there really be another way?”

The desire to be seen for more than he was made to be is so strong in him that it feels like he is constantly unconsciously searching for it. Not just admired or desired but truly known - it is woven into everything he does. But the tragedy is, the version of himself that he crafted to survive - charming, flirtatious, in control - is so convincing that even he sometimes believes that’s all he has to be. No wonder many players assume Ascension is what Astarion really wants.

That’s why the ritual is so dangerous. It is the ultimate temptation that seemingly can make all his fears disappear, promising eternal power. But it doesn’t free him. It traps him even deeper. Because it is the culmination of Cazador's legacy that he taught him: that power is everything, that it gives you the right to take and abuse, that to be weak is to be worthless and hurt, that vulnerability is pathetic. There is no place for kindness or love in this world.

If Tav helps him to go through with the ritual, it might seem like they’re validating his choice. But what it tells him is: you, as you are - frightened, hurt, still healing but craving connection - are not enough. That the only version of him others can value is the cold, invulnerable one.

It confirms his worst fear, so he clings to it harder.

That’s why, for me, Ascension isn’t Astarion’s "true self." It’s his trauma self - the final mask locked in place by a diabolical ritual, that becomes his new self forever. It's not freedom - it’s losing. Losing to fear. Losing to Cazador’s values. Losing the hope that was beginning to bloom.

But if Tav sees past those layers of defences and stops him - gently, lovingly - it’s not about forcing him to be "good." It’s about saying: I see you. And you're enough, just as you are. You don't need this to be free, to be loved.

That’s why it’s so moving when Tav instead gently reminds him that there is another way, reflecting his humanity back to him. In that route, Astarion finally allows himself to believe he’s more than what Cazador made him: not because he takes power, but because he rejects it and breaks that cycle.

When Astarion walks away from the Rite, it’s not weakness. It’s the first step toward becoming someone he never thought he could be - not a tool, not a monster, not someone else's shadow, but someone who can start discovering his real self. It’s a newfound freedom that finally allows him to start living again.

I want to say something about the Ascended route, too. I haven’t played it myself, only read and watched some bits of it - and maybe I might talk about it more later. But I’ll share just this for now.

For me, Ascension is a very sad and lonely choice for Astaion. By that, he forever separates himself from everyone else, from any genuine connection he could have had with the rest of the world.

Yes, Ascended Astarion still “cares” about Tav - they are still important to him. Maybe the most important person in his world, because he is not likely to let anyone in anymore. But it's not the same - not without that warmth, not when he owns them now. He puts them in the position he once fought so desperately to escape - completely dependent on someone else’s power. He might still be kind. But they are not equals. And I can’t help but wonder how long that kindness would last.

Yes, he can walk in the sun. He can taste food, enjoy luxuries. But without healing, those things are hollow. How long until the joy of novelty wears off? Until the hunger for power inside grows stronger again, forever insatiable? Until it can't satisfy him anymore, and he turns toward the one who cannot leave or say no? Love is not control.

So, for me, persuading Astarion to give up that idea is not forcing him against his nature - it's reminding him of it. Tav cares about him and doesn't want him to corner himself in a choice he might regret later. It's not about moralizing or controlling his choices, but about wanting him to be happy in the long run. If Astarion had made a decision in anger or desperation, its result would have haunted him forever.

That’s why I don’t even like calling it the “Spawn ending.” To me, it’s simply Astarion’s ending. The one where he can finally become who he truly is. Himself.

Tags

baldur's gate 3 bg3 astarion astarion ancunin astarion x tav Spawn Astarion astarion meta ascended astarion critical bg3 meta

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izumiphoenix

2 weeks ago

Thank you for sharing your perspective! I especially loved what you said about “my door is always open” kind of patience. That’s such a beautiful way of holding love and boundaries together.

It’s really interesting to see how our Tavs shared so many core beliefs, but navigated things differently in those moments.

From the moment they stepped into the city, Astarion already felt cornered and on edge - everything around him was a reminder of his past. And the confrontation with Cazador, the one who held absolute control over him for so long, was drawing closer. He couldn’t see reason anymore, not fully. But maybe, after defeating Cazador and lifting that looming threat, he would finally be able to stop and think.

Because while Astarion is incredibly intelligent and cautious, in moments of fear he tends to rush toward anything that promises safety. First it was the tadpoles - an unknown power, but one he thought could save him. Then it became the Rite - his last resort. He knows the risks, you can see the doubt flash across his face. But he shuts it down, because if he starts to question it, he won’t be able to do it. And he needs it to work.

So for my Tav, I felt she would stay grounded and patient, trusting that if she didn’t push, he might come to the answer on his own. That’s what she usually did for other companions, too.

I don’t think our party faced any difficulty that day and it took a while till we went to the castle. Considering all the pain your party went through, it makes a lot of sense that your Tav was exhausted, and scared for him. That emotional tension really does make the moment hit hard.

It’s also interesting that in your game Lae’zel was kidnapped! In our case it was that little girl Yenna who stayed in our camp.

And yes, that moment when he seemed to regress, returning to manipulation… for my Tav, too, it was painful. Not because he was trying to use her again, but because she felt the wall go up. That shift from their honest, vulnerable exchanges to something more distant, more desperate.

And I agree - sometimes, calling out someone you love is the right thing to do. I just think there are moments when holding space and letting someone come to their own conclusion can also be a way of loving them. For my Tav, that felt closer in the moment.

There’s no single right answer in that scene, I think. Both reactions are different ways of responding to someone you love when they’re not themselves and both are valid.

I really appreciated hearing your take. Looking forward to talking more!

Facing Vampire Spawns

(7/? part of “Astarion: In Search of True Self” — [masterpost here])

(This part is less about analysis and more about how I personally approached this moment in my game, and the reasoning behind the choices I made. It isn't the only way, of course, but it felt right for Astarion and my Tav and the dynamic between them.)

There’s a moment when Cazador’s other vampire spawn appear, trying to capture Astarion and drag him back so their master can perform the Rite. They believe they’ll get to ascend too - but we know Cazador was lying.

At this stage in the story, Astarion still wants to perform the ritual himself - he doesn’t even want to hear anything against it. So when the spawns appear, he starts lying to them - saying that if they help him, they’ll get their revenge and live on, fully knowing the Rite would require their deaths.

There are two dialogue options Tav can choose in this moment:

(Persuasion) “Have you no heart, Astarion? You’re asking them to die for you.”

(Deception) “He’s free of Cazador’s command. You should follow him. He’ll save you.”

In theory, the first seems like the “right” option for a morally good Tav. But I didn’t like it - not here, not like this. It sounded too much like calling Astarion out in front of everyone, even after promising to support him. And sure enough, choosing that line raises approval with other companions… but lowers it with Astarion. He replies bitterly: “Don't look at me like that, I can't be who you want to see in me.”

We know he can, but he just doesn’t know that yet! And he is not ready either. Which is actually fair, because even though he's so sweet deep inside, he never hid from Tav how his own well-being was always a priority for him, from the beginning of their travel, and that he wanted to perform a ritual for himself.

(Isn’t it amazing how much he trusts them, never hiding his intentions and plans from Tav - when we clearly see that even the rest of their party disapprove?)

It's not even the first time Tav heard about his intentions, so bringing it up now feels less like a heartfelt plea and more like a tactical move to stop him - a betrayal, in his eyes, especially coming from someone he trusted. Which could be valid for a lawful good Tav, but it would also mean sacrificing the trust and understanding between them (not in the game, of course, you will just get a disapproval, but realistically it wouldn't pass without consequences).

I felt like discussing it and sharing your opinion was fairer to Astarion, that's why I went with the second option. Almost every other companion disapproved, but for me, that was the moment Tav showed they truly accepted Astarion as he was - in that moment. Not the person they hoped he would become. Just as he is.

So for me, it wasn't about deceiving the spawns, but about showing that Tav truly is on his side, without pushing him into something he wasn’t ready for yet. They don't try to fix or change Astarion - they are just there, grounding and patient, gently nudging him towards the light and believing in him. Respecting his autonomy and reminding him that there is more to him than survival instincts and revenge. Because Astarion can be a person who chooses kindness, but he needs to come to this realization himself.

Later, after the fight is over, you can have a private conversation. This is the time when he can feel safe and listen without being defensive. And Tav can softly raise that question: "Are you ready to sacrifice them?"

And now, indeed, Astarion is open to discuss it. He shrugs his shoulders, brushing it off - they are just vampire slaves. We talked about this in my previous post. He can’t put himself on the same level with them, it is too much: he is afraid to feel helpless again and he has to dehumanize them to be able to proceed with the rite.

When Tav asks if he doesn’t sympathize with those who share his plight, Astarion says that no one ever looked out for him. "You're the only one. Other people don't have a heart like you. You are you. No one is like that."

At first, for me, it sounded unrelated to the question. But it all kind of falls into place now. He is defensive here - probably because he understands how wrong it would be to sacrifice them. But he can't let himself think about it. He chooses to ignore the voice of sense, the voice of Tav advising him against the rite. He shuts himself down because he needs to do it - it promises everything he craved. Safety, freedom, perfect revenge. So he throws at Tav excuses, an attempt to justify and explain why:

This is the world he lives in. This is how things work. How he spent two centuries. What Cazador inflicted on him - be strong or be nothing. The one in power has the right to decide.

And Tav is an exception. A miracle, maybe. Something that wasn't supposed to happen but somehow did. But it doesn't change the rules.

When Tav says that the world can be kinder or that there will be others who care about him - approval rises even though he does not believe in it yet. But maybe he wants to.

It is a great detail how Astarion keeps saying this is also for Tav’s sake - while he is still desperately trying to grab at something that can guarantee his freedom. This might be just another excuse he is making to justify his ways, but for me, it does show the shift in him: Astarion is moving from a priority on self-preservation towards opening up to protecting someone else he cares about.

<next post> - to be continued

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baldur's gate 3 bg3 baldurs gate astarion astarion ancunin astarion x tav

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izumiphoenix

3 years ago

New strategy from extras