Oh No, He's Looking At Me...

I think something else to note since my other post about PK is getting attention: is that unless someone knows what they're doing, dreams cannot be controlled.

This is why the Radiance is so damn dangerous: she will find a crack and worm her way in, promising sweet things that the average person can't fight back against. Every single uninfected person with is lucky to not have come under her radar/hasn't been there long enough/has a very strong will and sense of self. Even then, the strongest of wills can break (as evidenced with Holly) and it's only a matter of time before she claims everything.

They can fight back in dreams, but they can't control them. PK is not a dream god, just knows enough about the realms and has enough power to bullshit his way through this whole plan and the moving of the palace. That also means since he's not inherently a dream god and doesn't know everything, the White Palace ends up shifting and twisting into the platforming hell it is now. He doesn't have full control over it, and his emotions will dictate how it ends up being.

The only two beings that we know of that can control dreams in some way is the Radiance and Grimm. Grimm too is definitely the weaker one, being stuck in the nightmare realm and having to do this ritual. I think it's safe to say Radi and him probably got into some sort of feud (that Radi probably started with what we know of both of their personalities) and it lead to the realms separating. Everyone else is subject to their unconscious mind, and both Gods can take advantage if they want to. Grimm doesn't seem to interested in doing so other than harvesting essence, but Radi sure does, as that is a core mechanic of how the infection works.

Now the biggest question is: can a dream be sustained after its host is dead?

If we assume no, then maybe with Grimm's or Radi's intervention it can keep going, but I doubt it would work forever and would be draining on them both. They'd have to have a damn good reason to keep a dream alive.

But also if we assume no, the fuck is going on with the White Palace? Is the king somehow still alive in some form?

Though if the answer is yes, then the White Palace is a graveyard, a lingering fragment in the Dream Realm, and one that will fade with time.

All sorts of fun headcanons can come from just the concept of the dream realms alone. Being a fan of the Yume Nikki games, I think I like the idea of the King not being in full control of his dreams and a lot of the internal guilt and grief and wanting to run away from it all manifesting as a result. And you have to wonder just how it remains there when the King is seemingly dead...

The Hollow Knight people

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You know what I always considered a really weird detail about the Pure Vessel's cut Dream Nail Dialog?

"Do not think, do not speak, do not hope, do not..."

"Do not speak"

Why? Why 'speak'? Why that word, specifically?

"Because it references back to the "No mind to think no will to break, no voice to cry suffering" thing, duh.

Well, yes.

But the other two parts of PV's DN dialog directly contradicts two of the requirements the King gave for a "Pure Vessel" -

Hollow CAN think; the dialog itself is proof of that.

And Hollow, by the very fact that they need to tell themselves NOT to hope, suggested that they did have some sort of hope they were attempting not to experience. To hope is to have a will for something, a desire, a wish. A will that the Radiance HAD broken to infect them.

So that just leaves us with "Do not Speak" and "No Voice to Cry Suffering"...

And if Hollow has a mind and a will...

Do they also possess a voice as well?

Why else would the word "Speak" be used as the direct contradiction for "No Voice"? Why else would the Pure Vessel need to remind themselves to not speak?

It makes me wonder if the King was wrong about even that aspect of the Vessel(s).

And the other thing that I find interesting: What is the Pure Vessel refraining themselves from saying? What do they want to say that they aren't allowing themselves to?

Just some food for thought

some critters having a discussion of some fashion :)

Have a chat about parental issues why don't you

been playin. silly bug game recently

Big tree!

The Pale King and The Radiance have so many parallels oh my God-

You don't get it the more I think about it the more these two are literally the same goddamn character in different circumstances and I'm about to list the reasons I know this.

1. Light

Ok let's get the obvious out of the way. Both the Pale King and The Radiance are described as "a light" by the seer, which already implies a connection. (Terms like The Old Light for Radiance and Beacon for Pale King allude to this as well) This could be a physical thing, but it also alludes to the type of power these two hold: both of them are capable of affecting bugs' consciousness.

The Pale King gave them sentience and The Radiance made the Infection. It's unknown whether the Moth Tribe had sentience before the Pale King but considering they were able to harness Essence for themselves it seems likely. Either way the Radiance probably gave them some kind of consciousness before the Pale King showed up.

2. "No Cost Too Great"

Ok so PK may have been the one to say the famous line but it 100% applies to The Radiance as well. Her one motivation is to be remembered, presumably out of self-preservation. To accomplish this she entered bugs' dreams and placed them under a hivemind. Not something we'd call ethical, but hey, neither is killing thousands of your own children to find one with no mind and seal it in a temple.

If we interpret Pale King's intentions as wanting to preserve his kingdom as opposed to keeping more bugs from being infected then he also falls into a similar mentality.

Hollow Knight's biggest theme in general is "all things must come to an end eventually", and The Radiance and the Pale King both cause suffering trying to counter that. One wanting to preserve her memory, the other his kingdom.

3. Overanalyzing their designs

The fuckin horn thingies

Both of these headpieces look like crowns for obvious reasons, but The Radiance's "crown" is a lot smaller, alluding to her status as a fallen deity. (This doesn't mean anything in-universe since thanks to the statue in Crystal Peaks we know she always looked like this, but it's an interesting design choice)

If you wanna look deeper the colors between their eyes and face are inverted

PK gives bugs a mind. Radiance takes it away. They have the same goal and the same power but do the exact opposite. So while PK has a lighter face and darker eyes Radi has a darker face and lighter eyes. This is something they share with the bugs whose minds they've altered; conscious bugs have dark eyes while infected bugs have orange pupils.

I know these details were probably not that deep upon conception but on the off chance they were I wanted to bring them up because they cool.

Anyway in conclusion we have

Similar mind powers

Similar symbolism

Similar desires

Similar "ends justify the means" mentality

We don't get much in the way of actual characterization since we only get like 4 lines out of each of them but their motives and actions seem too similar to not notice.