One Core Trait Of Phoenix Wright As A Character That I Rarely See Discussed Is How Utterly Evasive He

This aligns exactly with what Edgeworth said at the end of Turnabout Goodbyes.

“For the longest time, I thought that I might have killed my own father. I thought I might be a criminal. I became a prosecutor in part to punish myself”

Edgeworth projected himself onto every defendant he prosecuted. It was probably the only way he could live with himself.

replaying 1-2 and it’s finally clicked that edgeworth thinking phoenix could murder mia was less about phoenix and almost entirely about him, who’d been living with the knowledge he killed his father despite loving him, idolizing him, and constructing his world view around him. edgeworth indicting phoenix for his mentor’s murder was one of the biggest signs he’d been carrying a guilty conscience for the past 15 years of his life.

Sobbing thinking about how much I love Phoenix and Franziska's rivalry in Justice for All.

The fact that both of them are so attached to winning their cases because they don't know who they are outside of being a lawyer. Phoenix says "let me defend you" and Franziska says "our battle begins now" because they don't know how else to say "don't leave me behind". Phoenix hides his negative emotions because "for a lawyer, the worst of times are when you have to force your biggest smiles" and Franziska hides her vulnerability because "a Von Karma is someone who is destined to be perfect".

Both of them react with anger and bitterness at getting abandoned. Phoenix blames himself for Miles' disappearance and Franziska blames Phoenix because they'd rather do that than feel utterly helpless. And they are too busy fighting each other to realize they both love Miles, they both want to save him, but they're both incredibly wrong about how to do it.

I’ve been getting into Ace Attorney! Scene from Farewell My Turnabout (no spoilers tho pls, I haven’t finished the case yet)

I'm gonna ride the wave here and talk about Rise from the Ashes and why, even though I think it's a good retcon and doesn't involve any contradiction either factual or thematic, I believe it is still undeniably a retcon.

The crux of the matter, I think, is the definition of retcon. Here's what Merriam-Webster has to say about it:

the act, practice, or result of changing an existing fictional narrative by introducing new information in a later work that recontextualizes previously established events, characters, etc.

It has to change the narrative, not the events of the story themselves. It has to recontextualise the events in question. And I'd argue the case does those exact two things by establishing that Miles Edgeworth not only never willfully forged evidence, but was morally against it in the first place, even though the contrary had been implied in the four first cases of the game.

Here's how Miles Edgeworth is introduced in Turnabout Sisters, in the first conversation we have about him with Gumshoe. There are two dialogue options, one where you can say that yes, you do know him, or one where you say that no, you don't.

Here's what Phoenix has to say about Edgeworth if you pick "I know him":

I know him. He's a feared prosecutor. He doesn't feel pain, he doesn't feel remorse. He won't stop until he gets his "guilty" verdict.

And here's what he has to say if you pick "I don't know him:"

(Of course I know him... I was just playing dumb. He's a cold, heartless machine who'll do anything to get a "guilty" verdict! There are rumors of back-alley deals and forged evidence...)

The words "forged evidence" appear only in one of the two options. They're only rumours; there's nothing established. However this is the first discussion of his character; this is the first impression we get of him. The idea we are supposed to get from him is someone ruthless and without scruples, who "hates crime with an abnormal passion."

Later on there is of course the case of the updated autopsy report. The new report is entirely legitimate and treated as such. However it is presented by the narrative as an underhanded trick, with Phoenix exclaiming against it, and further establishes Edgeworth's lack of limits in his prosecuting ethics set up by the conversation with Gumshoe - confirming our bias. We're still talking about narrative intent here, not merely the facts of the story. The updated autopsy report is not an instance of Edgeworth forging evidence, however it showcases his ruthlessness, which by extension serves to corroborate the rumours Phoenix was talking about with Gumshoe - making you believe Edgeworth would indeed tamper with proof without showing him doing so. Edgeworth coaching the witness's testimony and withholding the wiretap has the same effect.

Right before the second trial day, we get to talk with Edgeworth himself, who has come to warn us that even though he knows Phoenix, Phoenix shouldn't expect any mercy from him. Here's what he has to say:

Edgeworth: [...] whatever Mr. White says today, it will be the "absolute truth." No matter how you try to attack his testimony... If I raise an objection, I have it on good faith that the judge will listen to me. Phoenix: (What, does White have the judge in his pocket, too!?) So... you're saying I'm going to be guilty. End of story? Edgeworth: ... I will do anything to get my verdict, Mr. Wright. Anything. Maya: Why... Why!? How can you torment an innocent person like this!? Edgeworth: "Innocent"...? How can we know that? The guilty will always lie, to avoid being found out. There's no way to tell who is guilty and who is innocent! All that I can hope to do is get every defendant declared "guilty"! So I make that my policy.

There is also the climax of the case, where Edgeworth tries to request the trial to be extended one more day:

Edgeworth: Ergo! I would like to request one more day before Phoenix Wright is granted his freedom. I need time to make one more inquiry into this matter. Judge: Hmm...! Phoenix: (Another inquiry...!? This isn't going to be another one of those "updated autopsy reports"! This guy just makes up evidence as he pleases! This is bad...!)

This heightens the stakes and creates tension as Phoenix puts his foot down and requires for the trial to come to an end on that day - and it does thanks to Mia's intervention. Once more Edgeworth forging evidence isn't shown, but is implied in a way that we are meant to take as fact.

So that is the image we have of Edgeworth by the end of case 1-2, our first confrontation with him. Someone ruthless, someone who will do "anything" to get his guilty verdict - even if that involves shady dealings (such as, but not limited to, tampering with evidence). Someone without limits.

Then 1-3 happens, where in the course of the trial Edgeworth realises Will Powers is innocent and helps us corner Dee Vasquez into confessing to being the true killer, therefore throwing his trial and helping us win against him. This is a big deal. This is a cornerstone of the arc of game 1, of Edgeworth's redemption arc. After that we get the infamous "unnecessary feelings" scene, where Edgeworth confirms it: he was shaken by the events of this trial and his first loss in the previous one. This is something new for him.

And afterwards of course is 1-4, where we get to the bottom of Edgeworth's vitriolic hatred for criminals and discover his backstory. We get to meet his mentor von Karma, "twenty times as ruthless as him," and witness him pull all the stops to prevent us winning and making our life really difficult. Interestingly he, too, skirts the line of forging evidence, but that fact pales in comparison to everything he does do: orchestrating a murder and framing Edgeworth for it, destroying the letter that incriminated him, hiding the evidence of DL-6 so that Phoenix cannot have access to anything to solve the case.

(On a side note: von Karma using "faulty evidence" against Gregory Edgeworth is actually an established fact, and I think the way AAI-2 retconned that to introduce Blaise was quite clever, but maybe I'll make a similar post about Manfred after the AAI Collection comes out in September)

So that's Edgeworth's arc, where he is confronted to a world where getting a "guilty verdict" isn't always the morally correct choice to make, and where his worldview is entirely deconstructed to allow him a redemption arc. His return in 2-4 continues that arc with his new motto of the "truth" being the most important thing (implying that hadn't always been at the centre of his considerations).

Now compares this with what he says in 1-5.

Edgeworth: Of course not! I didn't touch the evidence. Yes, I will do anything in my power to win a trial. However... I do have a code, and I follow it faithfully.

This is the first time we hear of Edgeworth having a moral code. This is the first time we hear of Edgeworth having limits to what he allows himself to do to earn his guilty verdicts. Up until now all we heard was "anything," as well as justifications as to why defendants deserve and need to be punished - "anything," by essence, implies not having limits.

It's not a contradiction. But it's a recontextualisation, and therefore a retcon.

I'm not going to give quotes or we'll be here the whole day, but we all know what 1-5 then does; SL-9, the Joe Darke killings, Gant's involvement.

By giving the rumours of forged evidence about Edgeworth a tangible starting point, the case reframes them, from something that he was previously implied to do routinely to a single event, one that was orchestrated behind his back and that he had no bearing on or even any idea it was happening. By establishing that Edgeworth does follow a moral code, his image of fearless prosecutor is deconstructed even further; where in 1-4 we were given a reason for his actions, now we are actually being told his actions weren't as severe as hearsay (and Phoenix's bias) led us to believe.

The case also introduces the idea of "working with the defence" and the search of the truth to Edgeworth, which plants the seed for his eventual return in 2-4 and deepens his character arc a little more.

Thematically, I personally think 1-5 inserts itself very well into the larger narrative. It plays with both themes and facts established by game 1 and teases themes and facts that will come in the next games (2-4, all of game 4). However it does recontextualise Edgeworth's arc by establishing he never willfully forged evidence, contrarily to what was previously implied, and giving him a retroactive caveat to his policy of "anything to achieve his guilty verdict" that hadn't existed before. Therefore, it is a retcon, albeit one that works, in my opinion, well within the larger arc of the games and with Edgeworth's character.

That’s precisely why Farewell My Turnabout is so so important to their relationship. It’s the case where Miles saves Phoenix <3

I cannot overstate how important Phoenix and Edgeworth are to each other’s lives. There is something so beautiful about Edgeworth’s walls crumbling before the man who picked up his father’s legacy where he couldn’t. There is so much care in the fact that Edgeworth returns to guide Phoenix when duty versus personal circumstances shake the latter’s principles to their core.

They spend their lives reciprocating each other’s acts of kindness, and it is in this eternal dance that they find comfort, trust, and love in one another.

you buried two people that day

I'm so tired of hearing that Phoenix saved Miles without hearing about any of its implications.

Because Phoenix's savior complex is a major problem not a solution. Because Wrightworth is not about Phoenix saving Miles, it's about them saving each other. Because in Farewell My Turnabout, Miles Edgeworth said "We aren't some sort of heroes. We're only human." and he was right.

I agree with everything you said, Azalea! Also here's the exact quote from Farewell My Turnabout:

(You really let me down…) When you disappeared, I felt… betrayed. The reason I decided to become a lawyer to begin with… Was because I believed in the things you said to me, all those years ago… And you… You betrayed your own words. That's why… one year ago, I made up my mind. I decided that the Miles Edgeworth I knew had died… …At least, that's what I told myself.

This line from Phoenix is so so interesting and akdjfdjhskjfdgjh I want to sink my teeth into it. One day, I will write a longer analysis on this but...

No matter if Phoenix truly thought Miles was dead or not, I think this quote makes it clear that Phoenix decided that Miles was dead to him. Phoenix couldn't handle the abandonment, the fear that after everything he did people would still inevitably leave him. So he turned to resentment and killed off "the Miles Edgeworth I knew". Because if Miles had always been the "Demon Prosecutor" obsessed with guilty verdicts (which is what Phoenix keeps accusing him of in 2-4), then Phoenix could dismiss his belief in Miles. Phoenix could dismiss all his efforts and desire to save Miles.

So Phoenix wouldn't have to deal with the pain of believing in and being attached to someone so much... only for them to leave him... again (coughs in Dahlia/Iris).

HOT TAKE: Phoenix should have known Edgeworth was still alive during the “chooses death” era. Gumshoe probably would have told him if he had asked, he was just too busy overreacting.

Lmao hello there you :P I know who you are. You probably are expecting this but I'm sorry to say:

Strongly agree | Agree | Neutral | Disagree | Strongly disagree

Yes, it's true, they didn't find Edgeworth's body, but when someone learns about a note that says the person "chooses death" I think it's difficult to say that thinking they're dead is overreacting lol. Edgeworth was gone, he was gone for an entire year, which is a long time for someone to be missing; usually at that point, if the person doesn't turn up, there's a good chance they are dead - and there was the suicide note on top of things. It's not an unreasonable thing to think, and Phoenix was grieving the best he could, so I also don't think it's very fair to expect him to be perfectly rational in those circumstances. Besides, he seems to still be struggling to accept it by the events of JFA, which honestly tracks with the fact he never got closure.

Besides... there are lines in the game implying that Phoenix did think Edgeworth was alive (something like "you were dead to me" if I recall correctly), and that he resented him for leaving, not dying. Personally I think his behaviour screams of repressed grief and denial, but the alternative interpretation is there.

This is further evidence for my point that that Edgeworth has a “move on” attitude towards trauma and the past. After his father’s death, he pushed down his grief and guilt to pursue guilty verdicts. He probably did everything he could to forget his old life. Even now, he doesn’t dwell on the past, the difference is his goal is no longer so unhealthily single-minded.

He buries his emotions not for the sake of hiding them but to accomplish his goals.

This is what I’ve been saying!! I hate mischaracterizations of Narumitsu that make Phoenix Miles’s savior and turn Miles into a poor baby who needs to be saved all the time. That is not them. Do you think Miles “we aren’t some sort of heroes” Edgeworth would ever approve of that? Miles, the only person who properly calls Phoenix out for his savior complex?

I could go on but, everything you said OP.

Wrightworth is not "Sunshine x Grumpy"

They are "Visibly Traumatized x Repressed Trauma", they are bitch for bitch, they are so many more interesting things than that overused dynamic.

Miles is not some sad boy who needs to be coddled, he is a grown ass adult who sent many people to jail. Some of which could have possibly been innocent. He's done some shitty things that are influenced yes--but not excused by his trauma. He can and SHOULD be called out on things he did, stop blaming all his bad actions on Manfred or Gant.

Phoenix is not a golden retriever boyfriend. Maybe he was in college when he was "Feenie" but that shit ended the day Dahlia was arrested (Hot take Feenie feels more ooc to the Phoenix we knew in the trilogy than Beanix ever did to me). Phoenix is a snarky bitch almost all the time, even thinking/saying downright mean things to/about people he cares about like Maya. He has massive big brother energy but not always in the "I'll take care of you" way but often in the "I'm gonna disgust/upset/annoy you on purpose because I think it's funny" way. (Like if you choose the fishing pole in Turnabout Goodbyes, he teases Maya by suggesting they use Missile as bait, which Maya takes as well as you'd expect).

Miles is not a princess who waited every day for Phoenix to save him. Miles was perfectly content to forget his past entirely as is his coping mechanism, and Phoenix has a savior complex that no one asked him to have. Miles never asked for Phoenix to reappear in his life, Phoenix just realized Miles was gonna ignore him, so he became a lawyer himself so that would no longer be an option for Miles.

This isn't to say Wrightworth is a bad ship by any means. This is to say that their characterization and relationship are so often blatantly misunderstood by the fandom. So often watered down to fit a basic mold. Which is a shame because their actual relationship is so much more interesting to me.

Sooo many fanfics get both of their characters wrong to either fit a dynamic they never were or because they want to give them less accountability than they deserve.